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Philip how can you discuss them for years since I saw the details in the Evraz NTMK in RU bonds placement offer? I get that you don't understand debt/accounting schemes. So very simple - there are 2 companies: Philip Plc UK and Philip Russia. Philip Russia buys/has 3-4 bln usd of Philip Plc UK debt. Philip Russia than writes it down as uncollectable (HAS ALREADY HAPPENED) and sells it for 100 mln to Mr. Formally Unrelated. Then Mr. Formally Unrelated comes to Philip Plc UK and makes it pay 3-4 bln usd of Philip Plc UK debt. Philip Plc UK has no money and pays for the debt with Russian assets and NA assets may be. I want you to formulate your questions at AGM not as a spoiled child about dividends, but as a serious investor - main idea being that you DO NOT want the company to sell the debt to Mr. Formally Unrelated/assets to Mr. Formally Unrelated/etc. Here our interests go along cause I want the company to be whole to ESO which can happen any time now (I hope the gov will stop sleeping and release the list part 2), and you just want it to be whole to make money).
Andrey,
We discussed debt structures for years in our chat.
We have some accountants in the chat they know what they talking about .
So dont shoot the messenger here
Thanks
Andrey,
You not listen ?
This is intercompany debt structures in place to balance tax efficiency and created many years ago. There is no EXTERNAL debt connected to the 4B between PlC in UK and SA in Luxembourg.
The debt profile is clear defined:
1. 1.1B$ Eurobonds
2. 1.75B$ NET DEBT (Evraz Russia)
RASP and NA are NETDEBT negative so you need to reduce this from the numbers above …
Philip, they can sell the debt very cheap from Evraz Russia to an "unrelated" entity and this "unrelated" entity will approach Evraz plc with 3 usd bln of Evraz plc debt to settle the debt with the sale of the Russian assets. And I see signs that this might be their plan. I was fully invested into ESO thing, but the RusGov has made Eso into stages and if this asset for debt sale happens than all these shares will be worthless for me too as well as for you. Philip, i get that you have invested all your money and life into Evraz and feel better listening to the optimists in your cult chat but at least try to think rationally and stop being a clown asking idiotic questions instead of the real ones. See what has happened in Polymetal and Yandex cases. Anthony MC/Plena/Teegak/Avingon etc - I am NOT buying you at ANY price, on ANY terms, you should consult a physiatrist ASAP. Write your messages to Philip, not me, maybe he will buy you out. I will not buy your shares even if you follow me on your knees for a month begging to buy them. I have no idea how to put it in a more convincing way!
Andrey…
As ever it takes any intelligent adult seconds to find holes in your desperate rankings on LSE:
To point one out for now. Although I do wish to return my Sunday dinner…
“…that makes “sale” of Russian assets from Evraz plc for zero (debt) an option for them unless there would be a determined group of shareholders ready to go to court, etc. “ Andrey…
I’m sure Norwegian Sovereign Fund would take them to court?
Not to mention many other institutional investors.
Andrey one of your more amusing comments to me last year when I tried to ‘deal’ with you. When you wanted to meet me with a suitcase of cash at Southbank Tube Station. As per your admission. “The banks reject my transfers!”
“I am only offering £1 as I am approaching institutions and dealing at £0.50” Andrey
😂😂😂
Did the cashiers from Blackrock and the Norwegian Sovereign Fund meet you at Southbank Tube Station? 👍😂😂
Andrey getting desperate.
So funny.
Andrey … there is no external connected to the SA component. This was created at the time of move from Luxembourg to London Exchange
I am not the uneducated one here.
Evraz total net debt is now around 2B in total. Way better than H1-22
Philip educate yourself a little bit at least, there is no such thing right now as intercompany in Evraz case due to sanctions and the capital controls in Russia and in UK. At least read what I have written.
Andrey,
Intercompany (virtual) debt is an accounting subject and taxation one.
Only external debt has relevance
1.1B$ Eurohonds left
1.75B Evraz Russia (Net debt)
RASP is positive Netdebt
NA has a positive Netdebt (only intercompany loan 500M)
Total NETDEBT will be way lower than Eurobonds and Netdebt Russia together
I have read Philip’s/PRO questions for the Annual Meeting of Evraz plc shareholders and must say that they are away from what Evraz plc minor shareholders should worry about. The key mistake is that Philip/PRO thinks that nothing has happened to the West-Russia relations and to Evraz plc since 2021. Like that there are no sanctions, no war, etc. and therefore no problems with Evraz plc legal entity and structure and assets safety. There are like 10 questions about “Dad, have we arrived to the dividends yet?” that show that you understand absolutely nothing about the situation and make yourself look like spoiled little kids. Evraz also won’t answer you about the 470 law ESO, because the Eso lists are made by the Rus Gov and are mandatory. Evraz has z-e-r-o influence/choice over it.
Apart from sanctions and the only good question (which is: Is there anything more we as shareholders can do to support Evraz moving forward?), the real problem is Evraz plc debt.
Evraz plc was the key debtor in the Evraz whole corporation – about 4 bln US dollars of debt on Evraz plc as of 31/12/2021 also inherited from Evraz SA. This debt was absolutely manageable when it was balanced by the Russian assets – Raspadskaya Coal and the Russian metal business (АО «ЕВРАЗ Нижнетагильский металлургический комбинат» legal entity).
But now the lifeline between the Russian business and the Evraz plc in UK is cut off. And if you could look at the Evraz plc balance there is a great hole – they still have about 3 bln of debt including eurobonds and they must write off “toxic” Russian assets as hundreds other UK and Western corporation have done in 2022/2023. It is impossible to balance that big of a write off if you understand how the balance sheet and audit works. Technically they have negative net assets of around 2 bln usd. This also makes the dividend or buy back question so ridiculously stupid.
Moreover, most of the Evraz plc debt now is in the hands of the Russian part of Evraz (АО «ЕВРАЗ Нижнетагильский металлургический комбинат» legal entity) that makes “sale” of Russian assets from Evraz plc for zero (debt) an option for them unless there would be a determined group of shareholders ready to go to court, etc.
If you really want to do something of value for your shares you should prepare to oppose the Russian assets sale by Evraz plc if it happens. This is the biggest risk for the Evraz plc holders. Even in the ESO 470 law scenario you can get some money blocked in Russia forever, but with the asset sale you get exactly zero, because the debt and write off are structured that way that Evraz plc loses all!!!
So, to sum it all up – the key idea you should show is that you want the company, i.e. the Evraz plc to stay intact and do not sell anything unless it is absolutely mandatory like ESO under 470 law. No fire sales running away Polymeta
Another letter with loads of sense.
I still dont understand why EVR dont move to another exchange. The FSTE prestige is ebbing.
Caan nice to read that you met him. Also interesting, as its sounds that the deal was not going ahead.
Evraz as company is doing really week we did over 4B$ Ebidta in 2022 and over 3B$ Ebidta in 2023. Company paid over 1B debt off since begin of 2022 and will pay in 2024 more debt off.
Brilliant time
So YOUR scaremongering prior to march ESO!!! it's happening creating fear and making the weak sell to you!! it didn't happen!!!! but your tactics were great as the weak sold to you!! Now yoU saying next ESO??? YOU PUT YOUR MONEY ON IT? How do i know you will when ESO doesn't come in. Will you transfer your shares to a charity.. listen I've looked you in the eye, met you face to face, you would sell sand to an arab and say its gold!!!
My shares are not for sale ,even at £20 each.. END OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
There are 3500 shareholders and 10 madman. These 10 people fill all the internet with cult-like nonsense about how Evraz Plc is doing great and ESO not happening, sanctions lifted tomorrow, NA assets worth a lot, Evraz default is not a default etc. etc. And when asked what price they are willing to pay for the shares they run away screaming because they know Evraz Plc is a zero and don't want to put ANY money in. I believe in ESO-ing soon and put my OWN money in. That is the key difference between us.
"Even the cult now agrees that ESO will happen."
What cult is that?
Show some evidence and I might sell you my shares (39,650).
ESO isnt coming … websites now rather saying the move to a friendly jurisdiction. Thats 100% possible in the future
AGM is next
ESO has happened in march! for the first 6 companies! Evraz plc did not make the first edition of the ESO list but I think still that Evraz is going to get ESO-ed and stripped from the Russian assets pretty soon. Even the cult now agrees that ESO will happen.
You still here you scaremongerer!! What you upped your bid to now??? Eso march what happened???
I agree the telegram group is a cesspit
However , I’m not selling my shares come what may.
Finally something we agree on Andreya.
Austria12 - join us at the AGM.
Happy to invite you in the group.
Good regular updates
The group is a meaningless cult with 99 percent of messages being hate towards US-UK-UA's government and the other 1% is "when huge dividends?" So spare your time.
I will be in UK from 5th of May to 9th of May, after that I have to change passport/visa, so next deals earliest JULY 2024 if no Evraz ESO before that. So write me an email to: chinaadr2021 at yandex.ru to discuss the deals if you want to get the money for your stocks since ESO will nullify them for foreigners.