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Its very quiet on this board. The ATC offer closed last Thursday and the results should be coming out soon I hope. Remember 10% of their market value will come to DSS. Whether its a distribution of shares in the new group or cash, I don't know. May even go into the pockets of the directors! Maybe they'll use that to resist DAN ? Just don't know. If anyone has any info then please post. ATB.
Had a chat with Hargreaves Lansdown and apparently Daniel Stewart aren't in administration otherwise they would have informed us. This is what I got from an ATC document:
DSS is a separate entity to Daniel Stewart and Company PLC which we have been notified went into administration on 1 February 2019.
Atlantic Carbon Group Plc
7 February 2019
So I don't know what this means. Looking at the wording it could be that Daniel Stewart and Company PLC was some sort of subsidiary. Cant explain this at the moment though.
As you say, we have no choice in the matter, and we don't have a vote as DAN has just gone into administration. Neither have we been informed by ATC as to what our entitlements are. It's all in the hands of the ATC shareholders to approve the reverse acquisition and merger. We have no say.
I would still like to know how many DAN shares are in issue to get a better idea of our proposed 10% will be worth, and I'd also like to know if there is provision to convert DAN shares to the new ACG shares at the nominal price of £0.025 and not have to wait until it launches as it will inevitably be higher than that. It's a really grey area for us.
With all this going on and this board being very quiet, I can't help feeling that many Dan holders are unaware of what's happening. Furthermore my broker doesn't even know what our position is as they haven't been informed as yet.
It is a bit naughty. Asking tus to approve something which we have no way of knowing the value of repercussions of doing so. The thing is, it is what it is and we don't really have a choice.
Having been on the ATC chat board it doesn't look like this is a scam as Hargreaves Lansdown suggests. I think its more the case that HL haven't had any information regarding DAN holders. In fact DAN apparently went into administration on 1st Feb 2019.
It looks like what's happening is that ATC would like to re-list on the main market, but is not big enough to achieve that market listing. If, however there is a market registered company thats no longer trading then ATC can reverse acquire it and get onto a main market much easier. Daniel Stewart fits the bill perfectly. So ATC reverse acquires DAN and hey presto, gets a market listing.
The next thing is what do current DAN holders get out of it. Well its looking like 10% of the new group according to ATC's offer document. DAN changes its ticker to DSS and becomes the parent company, ATC changes to ACG and the whole group becomes Atlantic Carbon Group PLC.
So if we get 10% what's that worth? Well there are figure of 100m, 200m and 300m flying about. If we say 200m then DSS holders will be worth 20m. Next question is how many old DAN shares are in circulation? If we knew that figure then we could work out how much our individual holdings are worth. Though I fear the value will be much less than we paid for them.
There maybe an option to convert our holding to the new shares prior to re-listing and this could be done at the nominal value, which is £0.025 which would be good as I think we should increase our shareholding. However our true value may not be apparent until after listing and trading starts. Any conversion to the new shares would then be at whatever the market value is, which could be anywhere between 0.05p and 2.5p, which gives us a much smaller holding.
I'm making assumptions here, but they are only assumptions. No information has been released to DAN holders or their nominees, of which mine is HL. Nobody has any real idea how this merger/acquisition will effect us, but if anyone has any further thoughts then please post. We need to know what's going on.
GLA.
Dawto I agree. I'm having serious doubts about this now. I find it very strange that my broker hasn't informed me of this offer.
So I did some investigating re Euroclear and it seems you need an account to start the process of transfer, but this could take a week, so why the impossibly tight deadline of 28th Feb 2019? Plus the offer document urges shareholders to hurry, and not delay.
The document also refers to Daniel Stewart as DSS and not Dan, which was always its ticker, which I though was a bit strange.
Atlantic Carbon Group actually has a website called atlanticcoal.com which looks insecure as there's no padlock in its search box.
So I called my brokers at Hargreaves Lansdown, and their corporate affairs team advice was to take no action until they'd looked through the documents I sent them. They said it could well be a scam as they'd received no information regarding Daniel Stewart and that it was most unusual to to get an acquisition offer to be taken up in this way.
I'm sitting tight until HL get back to me.
Is anybody here looking to take up the offer ? I have looked at the procedural route to transferring the shares into escrow and it looks like you have to dot it through Euroclear. I think you have to open an account with them and become a Personal Member, then have a sponsor to conduct arrangements between yourself (private investor) and Euroclear. This sponsor ought to be the brokerage the shares were bought through (in my case Hargreaves Lansdown).
I've emailed someone at Euroclear and hoping to get some questions answered, but their documentation reckons it about a week to set up and account. If there's anyone further down the line with this of understands this more clearly than me then please post. Cheers.
I think the more pertinent question is why ACG is doing it this way, I have grave suspicions myself!
Just be aware(and very afraid) of who you are getting into bed with; google "Stephen Best – President of Atlantic Coal Plc. joesaunders61"
If I get this correctly DSS wants to re-list by using our shares to acquire ACG and in so doing take over the name of ACG. We get approx 50% more shares as a sweetener. It looks like it will be a UK company, but will it be on AIM or another market ?
Just wondering why DSS is doing it this way. Could they not re-list as themselves at some point ? What will happen to any shareholders shares should they not take up the offer ?
Personally I'm pleased to see some movement at last but interested to know why they're using this approach. Oh and does anyone know the total number of DSS shares in issue so as to ascertain the SP on re-listing.
Let’s remember that the research note back in October 2018 valued ACG at USD 86m. I would suggest that will be a minimum valuation for the new group. Divide that value by the number of shares in the enlarged DSS and this should be the lowest SP on a relisting. PS the nominal value of DSS shares is irrelevant.
Info...
Coal is classified into four main ranks—lignite, subbituminous, bituminous, and anthracite—depending on the amounts and types of carbon it contains and the amount of heat energy it can produce. Prices are generally higher for coal with high heat content.
The average annual sale prices of coal at mines by main rank of coal in 2017, in dollars per short ton (2,000 pounds)
Bituminous—$55.60
Subbituminous—$14.29
Lignite—$19.51
Anthracite—$93.17
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=coal_prices
Some historical news and videos:
https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/LON:ATC/Atlantic-Carbon-Group/
Would there be any reason to believe any shorts still exist, I suppose they would have been cancelled when DAN was delisted?
Hi all
The recent offer by DSS for ACG is based on a share offer of a nominal value of 2.5p, as I understand it he nominal value of Daniel Stewart Securities shares was 0.25p.
Has there been a share capital restructuring to facilitate this? As shareholders, I thought you should have been notified.
Caveat, the offer is to give 1.5587 new ordinary shares of £0.025 NOMINAL VALUE each for every ACG share. They may not have a sale value of 2.5p. Good news, though. Movement at last.GLA.
Yes will do. Great heads up though. How did you find out?
Let me know what you think.
Wow thanks unvrkw for posting this. Looks like some action finally after waiting for years with no knowledge of what is going on. Theres a lot to read and much jargon to wade through but I'm very pleased to with this offer. The important date is 28.2.19. And the offer gives us 1.5587 shares for every one owned. I'll be doing some in depth reading over the weekend but good news all round.
tied up with acg to relist.
DSS has already got 50% of vote so pretty much going to win as you need 75% on the day to overturn any decision.
so DSS goes to market, we then hold 90% of this business, so a dilution of 10%. it states the enlarged share capital of DSS not sure what that means. dss will be renamed atlantic cabon group. dss will be parent company of which atlantic is a subsidary of dss.
so we get more shares, which in total add to 90% of teh business, however we are getting 1.5 shares for everyone so 50% increase? against 10% total overall and if the price of each is 0.025 that is very good.
http://www.atlanticcoal.com/News/News/2019/DSS%20ACG%20Circular_final.pdf
so acg is giving more shares, price of £0.025 per share and owning 90% of the shares, 10% to DSS
Has anyone any news on the progress of the capital raising subscription, and the proposed market re-listing? This was news released by the company in March 2018.
Got a lot of capital tied up in this one and the lack of concrete news is frustrating to say the least.
All the best to fellow sufferers.
Does this mean any existing shares held in Dan prior to the collapse will have a value going forward???
Message on the DSS Shareholders: Further update: March 28th 2018 We are pleased to advise that at the GM meeting held on March 26th all resolutions were passed. As such we are now in the process of completing a subscription to raise up to �1.4 million at a price of 0.3p per share which will value the company at �4.2 million, after the money, assuming full subscription. Should you have an interest in participating in the offer for subscription please do not hesitate to contact us. We have also commenced preparation of the required documentation to apply for a listing on the Standard section of the Full List. Does this mean that the shares that we hold will automatically be included in the subscription once we have contacted DSS?
Any feedback from the meeting on 26th March?
Wow, There was me thinking this was a dead duck then out of the blue there's a general meeting on the 26th March!! Must be after more money from the Pi's Well they can hiss off! Lost enough on this load of crap!!!!
Glad theres a chat on this subject as got lots invested in this crap