Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
They'll use all the time by the look of it. 30 days from form 3. Refund comes after that and takes "at least 10 days".
agree on the no news re GoI payment date, you would have thought that the BoD, bearing in mind the company is due 95% of the tax refund kitty for the Tax Act refunds, would have got some assurance from the FinMin re timing even if a vague February, March, etc rather just saying early 2022. i dont know if the BoD know this, but we are in early 2022.
but with the paltry numbers (so far) from the share buyback scheme, will the post tender share buybacks do anything for the SP ? is the BoD there to support the SP through buybacks or to optimise/maximise profits/value/balance sheet for the shareholders and the Sp will follow ?
It makes sense to support the sp for a period post tender offer - in an unloved investment segment - while looking for bargain basement priced oportunities to perhaps make supernormal returns. When the returns are returned to shareholders - the fewer the shareholders the higher the returns.
I think the post "spike"( ?) post tender offer invesment oportunity has improved.
The really disappointing no news is re the GOI payment date.
Mel
why do a share tender offer and a share buyback side by side ?
why not increase the share tender offer to $700m and leave the share buyback out of it ?
does it make any sense ?
Remember there will be a share buyback to follow on after the tender which should help support the share price. 200m$ or so.
If you are interested in just cash? Sell?
Jhonnytaffa:
I agree that it did say special dividend. But the thing about special dividends however they are delivered is that they are priced in only until they are paid.
Say the special divi was 72p - and the share price the day before going ex-divi was, for example, £3. You would expect the SP to drop by at least 70p the day after to about £2.30 ish. This is no different really, it just provides the option to retain all the gain in the form of shares at £3 or surrender some of them for cash at £3. Some people will retain there full holding depending on how they view the prospects of the company and avoid at that stage any tax liability. That's IMHO of course.
Wut?
Nah, I distinctly remember an RNS saying that part of the tax refund would be returned to SH's as a special dividend and part for reinvestment. Other posters on here are more on the ball with the actual figures but on current shares in issue it is about 72p per share. I'm sure CNE has committed to this in an RNS. What this does to SP after the divi is anyone's guess.
I want the cash - not interested in a share buy back - last time that happened here a few years back the SP dropped.
This mechanism was used by Whitbread not so long ago, after they sold Costa and were left with a load of cash. The SP may rise when India cash is actually received. The market will calculate the value of a share with Capricorn holding $700m and the offer will be based on that so that the number of shares it cancels will leave the remaining shares near the same value as before the $700m was spent. This provides an option to shareholders -take cash now or stick with the company holding a proportionally larger chunk of it .
The outcome at Whitbread was tender around £40 , more wanted cash than cash available - and then with the pandemic the SP crashed and a rights issue followed at £15 as I recall! But as theysay DYOR and GLA.
Erbal, good explanation, gives us many option, yet SP struggling to stay above £2! Anyway I know my £3 is a lot nearer! Bargain.
"spawny: The expectation with a tender offer is rather like the situation with a takeover. A price is established, current share price + value, then the market will react and either shareholders sell to buyers at a discount of a few percent right away, or accept the deal, or hold on the expectation that the tender deal will be priced in anyway. Institutions prefer to take profits at the time of their choosing, so rather than a single dollop of money, investors have several options to choose from. Long term holders simply hang on rather than having to use the divi to buy more shares, dealers can move in to buy at a price somewhere between the current price and the offer price, or people can accept the tender price from the company. This room for manoevre is more effective than a large divi which leaves investors with a potential tax bill. "
This is a good summary of the situation.
Theosus, i dont disagree re SP, but it is (or will be) based on SP post receipt of the tax refund. whatever the SP is at the time is unknown so whether it is higher/lower/the same as right now i cant forecast. however each SH will have to take a view as to whether they tender the %age of shares that the Company will tender for and the price of the tender. the alternative can be for each SH to sell into the market and incur trading charges if the Sp is higher than the tender price .
Tender price is always higher not mid price.
if i am not mistaken, the tender offer tends to be a look back of say what the mid price has been for the last 30 trading days ( i assume this would be after the GoI money is in) and say it is xxp per share and we can tender for xx number of shares. it really is a share buyback but going directly to shareholders rather than buying from the market in drips and drabs, but in effect that is exactly what it is.
Ha, sorry, Soundman !.
Previous post reply to Sandman.
250×4£ gives mcap of one billion ex buyback but there will be less cash in Co. so may not be 4£ per share ?
the tender offer is normally to all shareholders at xxp per share. they say we are buying back xx number of shares so out of the total number of shares in issue, say for this example it is 50%, if you hold 100 shares, you can tender 50 shares to be bought back by the company. if you do not want to tender, you say 0 for share tender. if you want all to be tendered (over and above) your shareholding , say 100 shares and if others are saying 0, you get all your shares bought back. normally it is a mixture of people who need the money and those who dont or want to stay in for a longer term.
They may not be able to buy due to insider information on India or acquisitions. They could be locked out.
It depends entirely on the tender price and who it is offered to. Ideal scenario for us is if they put the tender low and still get $500M uptake.
Ah, I get ya. Yes, the calc needs reworking for that :0)
??? There is no dividend.
Only the additional 70p is the divi. 200.00 is (approx) the current SP.
250m x 2.70 = 675m..