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Anyone remember Hertz?This announcement is for restructuring...Hertz shareholders werent wiped out.And Hertz is not bankrupt....hopefully CINE go the same route as Hertz and we at least get something back.Debt gone,free to trade.
If people can't afford to buy food, why would they go cinema's...food is a priority imho
Damn right. Emotions have led those to sell today. Those who did, sold at a loss. We apes will hold onto this stock till the fat lady stops singing. This is part of the restructuring to provide the company more capital to survive. This company will not go away, but us investors are in it for the long haul. That's the only downside. Be strong people.
She's probably eating pie, so we are all good!
Nervy weekend for many here! Capital at risk...imho
Mate, our lives are at risk every day. This is exciting AF! I'm in a lot, but its only money. I've got my health and that is worth weight in gold + more.
"be strong people" what a load of "old ladies nickers" you talk. Cineworld is about to end, shares will be worth 0p.
Money is money, but its human nature not to loose it...yes health is important but if u can't afford to have enough to live a decent life style..health can suffer imho
Alot of people tonight will be reflecting on what hit them today...the pain isn't a quick fix....its hard earned money that involved using ur own limited 'time' to accumulate funds which has washed away..all that hard work and time grafting, to have nothing to show for ...gone in a flash!!...to go chasing to recover losses can only take u into deeper losses...its a sad day imho
Soo many may not have had time to look at the shareprice until now....unable to get out! Unexpected surprise imho
Diamonddog is my kinda guy.
This is where life is at right??? ON. THE. EDGE.
Yeeeeahhh!
What the market cap was at start of the day to now...staggeering (around) £50million pounds worth of losses occurred amongst shareholders..either sat in paperloss or crystallised the loss...that's only today ignoring yesterday's liquidity news imho ...
Being on the edge is where it's at! :D
"The only advice I would give anyone here is to make your own decisions based on your own situation. The type who’ll tell you something is about to moon, when’s it’s 6 foot under is not your friend"
Agreed - but neither is the type who insist it is already 6 feet under when it is still breathing (albeit very raggedly). Plenty of those today.
It's a sad reflection of human nature that this forum has attracted over 1,000 posts today, many of from posters not seen at all on this board until recently and it seems here just to gloat, revel in watching a 'car crash' and others' misfortunes, take some sort of dubious moral high ground or brag about how much they've made on it by day-trading whilst others have suffered huge losses.
Oh well.
HEXAM, noy sure if I ever posted here but buying at 250 couple years ago and followed it down. AIM mentioned it may have cost investors/ traders/ gamblers £50m today. Thats a lot of posts just there
@Hexam Yes, the posts today have been particularly poor.
There are the tedious "lol it's dead and worth nothing I told you so" which I don't know why anyone bothers posting but I guess it makes them feel good about their own mistakes elsewhere.
Then there are the stupendously ignorant which don't understand or differentiate between:
- a company hiring lawyers and turnaround specialists for contingency purposes;
- the various types of insolvency procedures and what they mean for the company, customers, creditors and equity owners; and
- the rules around when a listed company is required to make a statement.
Gems include:
- the assertion that Cineworld as no assets and the landlords would make them strip the buildings out and chuck all the fixtures and fittings in a skip;
- that when there is a rights issue the value of the company remains the same but the number of shares increases causing pure dilution (err the company gets cash in return for the rights issue)
- that cinemas will be shut down willy nilly
- the pecking order of creditors and the assumption that the owners of the business have zero say in the future direction
etc etc
"Also I haven’t seen many gloaters." Seriously?
And I never said you were one of those saying it was definitely game over - but plenty have.
I do agree with you on ramping. I usually find it more irritating, and think it is often more dangerous, than de-ramping. Just not today.
Not many gloating ?
I've been on this board 18months now and only filtered 2 people until today. I now have 18 muppets in my filter box , make that 19 AimingHigh f**k of*.
@Wellington - yes the ones on the impact of dilution and on the process in general that they're now in have been particularly misleading - whether through ignorance or deliberate intent is another matter.
To be fair though there have been some gems going the other way too ('it all may just be a Mooky ploy to deal with Cineplex' and 'with all that revenue they must be making millions' to name just two themes).
It really may be better to stay away from this board altogether - but it's hard to resist.
@Hexam Yes, the assumption that every twist & turn is Mooky playing 4D chess to bring Cineplex to the table is very dull. Plus the assertion that Cineworld's best ploy for getting the judgement overturned is to tell the Appeal Judges that one of their colleagues (and probably a personal friend) is bent and deliberately ruled perversely in Cineplex's favour because she and her husband happen to know some Cineplex executives hopefully isn't Cineworld's preferred option.
Good evening fellow shareholders hope all are keeping well. I appreciate the level headed posts that have been shared from the usual suspects Bonkers, Mountainous, Wellington , Crumpets , TS , Hex etc to name a few
Clearly not a good day for Cine and a collectively painful one for us shareholders. Experience is hard earned and sometimes you pay for it directly from your wallet
Ironically just as this story broke I had completed some calculations that showed at mid August estimated revenues of 1.9bn that Cine would have an adjusted loss (after all expenses including financing costs) of $160m and a Year end position of -$58m . This compares to the $658m loss of 2021 - a vastly improved position
I am very confident these figures are accurate as I extrapolated these off the 2019, 2020 and 2021 annual report figures and cross checked these with my partner who is a banker and qualified accountant so knows her stuff.
The point of sharing this is that despite these being below the 85% base case it shows a massive improvement in position so to pull the plug in a dramatic way just doesn’t seem plausible.
If the reports are true about the Chapter 11 then there could be a multitude of factors driving this decision and doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a binary wipe out for shareholders.
Let’s wait to see what next week brings, I’m sticking around to find out.
What else can we do? From 120 to 80 the to 44, the 24, then 14, the now 1.9p! God bless cineworld!
HNS with due respect you haven’t got a clue what the revenue is, how the hell do you & your posh friends know who’s drinking & Eating what
@cruis - it’s pretty straightforward to extrapolate from historic breakdowns and a few assumptions
2022 FYE 2022 FYE 2022 YTD 2021 2020 2019
Revenue $3,081 $3,081 $1,955 $1,805 $852 $4,370
Cost of sales -$2,154 -$2,154 -$1,366 -$1,262 -$888 -$2,736
Gross profit / (loss) $1,140 $1,140 $589 $543 -$36 $1,634
GP% 37% 37% 37% 30% -4% 37%
G&A 88 88 55 ($88m) ($103m) ($103m)
Cash generated from JV - $23m $50m
Adjusted EBITDA $1,052 $1,052 $534 $455m ($115m) $1,580m
D&A1 511 511 319 ($511m) ($618m) ($702m)
Adj. Operating (Loss) / Profit $541 $541 $214 ($56m) ($733m) $878m
Rent -468.7 -455 -349
Debt -325.0 766.0 478.8 -311 -245 ($523m)
Adj. (Loss) / Profit before tax -$253 -$225 -$265 ($823m) ($1,327m) $355m
Tax charge 167 167 104.375 $167m $414m ($62m)
Adj. (Loss) /Profit after tax -$86 -$58 -$160 ($656m) ($913m) $293m
2019 Cine % of total revenue
Box Office US 1859.6 42.56%
Box office UK 405.7 9.28%
Box office ROW 270.8 6.20%
Retail US 953.9 21.83%
Retail UK 156.7 3.59%
Retail ROW 129.7 2.97%
Other US 396 9.06%
Other UK 86 1.97%
Other ROW 111.2 2.54%