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Just so it is clear ,I like many others , bought 10000 shares at 180 plus .
But it was my decision and my mistake, its normal to make mistakes ,not pleasant ,but could have been worse.
I do not trade anymore , solely long term.
So will simply collect Dividends ,and be cautious . Thats life in in the Stock Market.
That does not change my view the Company under Horgan ,has improved with a solid business plan.
Mistakes are solely the buyers problem , your decicisions ,no use trying to blame others.
I must point out added 10000 shares ,and certainly get no pleasure from others losing money.
Mr Bond
How refreshing to have a truthful and acknowledging bad timing in investment decisions as at this moment in time of course. Kudos to a fellow ex trader (market maker?) still above water and in the game . I have holdings fro almost day one when it was a map on the wall. amd I must say it has been a most enjoyable rise. Traded some and expanded holdings in CEY. Used divis to buy more. What idiots evaluate is there bought SP against divi. The real return is Divi as a percentage of current SP.until they crystalise their investment by sale.
Divi is based on shares held !!!!!!!!!! not on value of SP ERGH.
My evaluation of return on Divi and the same invested in a safe minimum percentage savings scheme means I am well above water OVER 10 YEARS .. Keep posting factual and actual thoughts as I for one appreciate the input.
Failures on my part. Johnson Mathey sold at 860.
Marconi nough said
Logica
Medisys
BTG
Short in the Banks on 9/11 and came out as hated the thought of making thousands per minute on the death of thousands of poor souls . Trading at the time with Bloomberg on TV and 3 computers live with Level 2 and direct input into the book.(market maker)
Very best regrds to you and all here.
The gold is still in the ground on Sukari and the surrounding holdings
AISC declining in relation to its peers.Solar!!!! Lightweight ore body trucks
Recession in the G7 and outliers .
Fed propaganda and manipulation has a finite end
Basle3 (Political and Central Bank manipulation aside)
IMF involvement in Egyptian sequenced advancement.
Cartel adhesion in Comex inevitably fragmenting as one or two will take a short term side step against cohesive manipulation for short term gain.
But what do i know can only post my thoughts for better or worse as I personally see them. Do not under any circumstances regard this post as advice but take it as my PERSONAL thought process.
Kindest regards Bob
I feel I've got it largely right on Cey since April 2021, also Lgen, M&G and Phnx. But if you want to talk about capital destruction, try investing in Saga just before the pandemic struck. Yeee-ouch, 83% loss on that investment. Likewise Credit Suisse. Doh. Swings and roundabouts.
Hi Mr Bond,
You are tying to defend what is in this case indefensible by shifting of blame onto the wronged party.
Presumably you and anyone else made the decision to buy at £1.80 or any price would be based on the information available and in good faith that the management at that time were professionally competent, were applying the most appropriate and best mining methods in the day to day running of the Sukari operation and that the BOD were carrying out the appropriate due diligence to ensure this was the case and that the facts presented to share holders the market and the media were accurate in every respect and truthful!
Unfortunately this wasn't the the case, Andrew Pardey had been in complete denial even trying to suppress valid media reports and lying to webinar telephone callers myself included of the Sukari managements failure to apply appropriate mining methods to to open pit, the underground workings, the Cleopatra slope and regarding true state of deteriorating grades of the Sukari operation since 20i15.
What is even worse is the that the responsible BOD have tried to squirm out of their legal responsibilities by claiming they were unaware of the failure to clear the waste in the open pit, so then that is either an admission of completely failing in their responsibilities as directors, or if that were not the case then they condoned bad mining practice at Sukari for short term gain, in other words knowingly deceived the shareholders the market and potential new investors for short term gain!
How on earth can any investor make a rational and balanced investment decisions when such a shower of are in charge, they cant!
The results of this is a share price that is a clean up bill of $467m a halving of the company market cap and the 50% reduction of the dividend none of which is likely to change until there is some quantifiable and determinable proof!
The whole market system is loaded in favour of those ith privileged information, such as the inner circle of the FED cartel who have full knowledge of NFP and other relevant information two days before everyone else,
If the market wants to claim to be fair then everyone should have access to the same information at the same time and there should be one level of trading, no inner book access and no privileged access at different levels based on ability to pay!
Like it or not Mr Bond we were all deceived by the management and I have made them aware o my feelings in writing many times over the past few years!
This is what ANYONE considering buying these share needs to be aware of!
HI 3bear,
I used to have medical insurance, etc with SAGA, no more, terrible experience a couple of years ago!
Sage was once a great organization set up ans successful in fighting for and ensuring fair practice, prior to going public!
Then it all went wrong , all the principles and values went out the window it was all about maximising profit, cutting cost, handing over control of its core business including insurance polices to the likes of AXA ,sacrificing real core values for corporate bullsh*t!
It's now no different most other plc's , not to be trusted!
Once the private sector gets hold of a service it's ******ed!
We know what has gone on Mr T and it is a pity that no one is accountable for it. Sadly if the investors who were duped by the goings on, took some form of legal action, it would just make things worse for investors.
As you said--we were going off what was being reported .
Im hoping we stay above a £1 , just as it looks better, but I will be reinvesting my dividend again when it is due (always seems a long time off).
I suppose we have to cross our fingers that gold rises in the mean time and that basle 3 actaully does some good.
As I get older and even more cynical, Im wonder wheter the US and the UK are going to blag their way out of a recession again------and the fat cats will get even fatter and the national debts will get even bigger.
i think every time it goes a bit quiet for Centamin, we could do with a few director buys to give confidence. 20,000 at a time would not hurt them at all.
Tibbles ,I suggest you read my post again.
I am not defending anyone.
No matter what the company or individuals are, as is always , caution.
At the end of the day investment decisions ,unless you trust Brokers, are solely down to me and my loss. Companies and the Stock Market have many crooks ,and 9/10 if to obvious they find another post in another company . Seldom prosecuted.
Dosnt seem fair ,but thats the world of Business
You sir Tibbles , have your strong views ,and are unlikely to change them, that is good ,but do not try speaking like everyone must agree ,and listen to you.
Absolutely Paul,
You are right they are counting on us nor daring to go to the regulators for fear of undermining market confidence i the share!
if they really believe in what they are telling us then they could but half a million plus each year until the recovery, messing about with 50,000 shares is just going through the motions for the sake of it, its demonstration of true belief and commitment that's needed now, rather then management sales speak and taking the wages whilst we shareholders take the all the pain and the risk!
A management buy of half million by Martin Horgan and others must have a positive effect!
Until I see this or some proof that things are really improving then I remain very wary!
IN law, Caveat Emptor, Let the buyer beware.
Thats why Estate Agents are hated by many.
Mr Bond,
Most people wouldn't have touched Cey at £1.00 if they knew the waste product was not being shifted at the same time as the gold was being shifted.
They shouldn't have set out to get the ozs without clearing the waste as they went along.
Hi Mr Bond,
I don't recall saying anyone should agree with me or accept my opinion , just that they are entitled to know all the facts and be told the truth.
Bing cautious in decision making is always wise, however without being aware of all the true facts then any decision is a gamble.
Quite so Geo1539,
The BOD, Pardey , Youssef were well aware that if we knew the truth we would have all bailed out, that's why the kept glossing over the cracks since 2015!
It is true a big buy by Martin Horgan would be nice to see, -----but regular buys of 20,000 + by the rest of them would show a bit of solidarity and may give a bit more confidence.
Re Caveat Emptor,
There re however important exceptions such as -
If the seller obtains the consent of the buyer by fraud then caveat emptor will not apply.
Also if the seller conceals any material defects of the goods which are later discovered on closer examination then again the buyer will not be responsible.
In both cases, the seller will be the guilty party!
Not so clear as that, Who do you blame the Broker or company .
Also are Goods on closer inspection , stock market buys.
Tied up in law for years ,the only winners the Barristers.
Read Estate Agents exclusions and conditions, Page upon pas=ge of small print.
Stock Market trading will be the same.
Incidently Insurance companies protecting them are unlikely to pay . The costs of such are down to the Plaintiff. Thats even if you manage to get the regulators to be interested.
mrtibbles, unfortunately in all aspects of Life we never know all the true facts. It's the nature of Humanity !!
Clued,
I agree regarding the unexpected in life, however that doesn't seem the case here, Pardey was all too aware of the existence of what he claimed in 2018 to be unexpected grades over three years previously but instead of being honest chose to gloss over the impending ongoing problem and mislead shareholders and the market!"
Hi MrBond,
I am quite clear whom I hold to blame, Andrew Pardey, Youssef El Raghy and the BOD at that time,subsequent events are proof they were in varying degree negligent, complicit, inept and less then honest .
They had scant regard for upholding the best interests of shareholders in many respects treated them like mushrooms!
Hi Tibbs and Mr Bond fascinating discourse you have started on this board . May I put my jaundiced , inaccurate and naïve thought just to expand the really fascinating debate but if told to duck pout happy to do so.
Sukari was the first major exploitation of gold in Egypt formed in politically difficult and less than stable times. A J.V for want of better terminology with basically the Egyptian Government (whatever the Ministry it was officially linked with)
It was essential that Sukari performed and contributed to the Government coffers to avoid the nay Sayers who wished to stop or bring it into a full Nationalised regime. It was therefore Absolutely ESSENTIAL that the profitable demonstration of success and contribution to the Government as Partner was imperative to the Pardeys and Raghi's Joseph et al. If a few bob could also be made then so be it. To be frank the action by Pardey and the CEY board (including the joke non execs) was not of a higher moral driver but self preservation and exit with life changing cash. Just my biew chaps and have no wish to defend it or otherwise.
Present SP is only a reflection of short term traders who always latch onto a volatile share with good swings. Balance sheet, resources, sustainability reducing AISC , proven management, good divi and prospects are all I now trust in. Geo politics is the bummer but becomes a contra play for gold price.
Great board , keep the contrarian opinions coming guys whilst remaining respectful colleagues.
Kindest regards to all
Bob
Hi Bobliz,
You make some very good points, in truth if it were not for the outside (we shareholders) funding of the Sukari project well over $1 billion and the bringing in of foreign mining expertise then it would have never got underway to any commercially viable extent let alone this far, the Egyptian side would still be squabbling about it whilst the artisanal miners came in scratched about for the good bits ore and ran off with the swag!
As you rightly allude to maximising profit at minimal cost in as shorter time as possible to please their Egyptian partners was as we are now aware the priority and this was achieved by by risk taking, bad mining practice and intentionally glossing the unsavoury truths whilst paying an unsustainable dividend and unjustifiable directors bonuses!
We were in short taken for "Saps" for far too long, or until the crack in the wall exposed the truth and now Martin Horgan has to try and turn things around!
Tibbs
Mr t.
You forget that Sami el Raghy is still a major sharehoder,by far the largest individual holder.
Who formed this company and brought in more people.
Sami was the Expert Geoligist and Businessman ,who negotiated with Government and recieved the concession aggrement, Egyptian /Australian ,I add, he stepped down from chairman not long ago.
The powerhouse . But not without influence even now.
What members of his family did or not , must have been a humilliation ,.
Even he must have been decieved , But it is all history ,and unlikely to happen again, it is the future ,not history that is important.
I prefer to look to the future.
You Johnny-come-lately shareholders contributed nothing to the capital of Centamin, you bought shares on market & took your risk, your capital went to other share traders as the company was in the position that it did not need further capital thanks to the work of previous management in particular Sami’s tireless efforts.
Try to keep at least some scrap of reality in your constant efforts to besmirch the accomplishments of the people who transformed CEY from a piece of desert into a multi-billion dollar gold miner!
Spoonington,
What you are saying is the only people/funds and Sami and family are the only
people who can comment on Cey as yous were the people who were in at the beginning and the rest of this board have no right to comment negative or positive, good luck with that. Apart from yourself how many people do you think there are on this board that were in from the beginning and can comment without fear or favour? Johnny-come-lately's not welcome, unless positive.
Hi Mizolgit, Spoonington,
I fully understand that Sami worked hard towards getting the concession, but lets be honest it wasn't just because he wanted to help create a mine for he sake of it and I am well aware that Sami and his family are very much a major shareholders and that own a vast number of his shareswhich were acquired at virtually no cost in comparison when there was'nt actually any mine, just the dream that a commercially viable mine would be built IF enough outside funding (us shareholders) could be persuaded to invest as the Egyptian government didn't have the necessary funding or the mining expertise !
I also had it explained to me from am official comapny source that the reason the company was listed in London was the need to attract essential investment from (Johny-Come-Lately's} to develop Sukari and to move the project forward!
The Sukari LHDR had been run on limits until it self destructed in 2018 without any contingency plan and when asked why it was explained that underground mining wasn't usually carried out in Egypt so it wasn't taken that seriously and there wasn't the local expertise, so it had to be brought in!
It was also explained by a Centamin official source that the El Raghy family were very keen to establish a generous share dividend policy as a priority after the CAPEX was recovered, now why would that be I wonder?
So we "Johnny Come Lately;s" are certainly in no debt to Sami and his family, on the contrary it is they they have very well because because of our investments!
spooington it would be helpful to see your rationale or any evidence or information to your comments which in the main just seem to be unjustifiable general vitriol