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Started: EdwardSeaton, 26 Apr 2024 15:01
Last post: Beza, 19 Jun 2024 10:18
Much appreciated
I'll do a summary of the AGM over the weekend.
I don't think any update would have been positive regarding South Africa given what TGA said the other day.
BISI has limited mine life left & needs to generate as much cash from the asset as it can.
Surprise the share price is hold up as well as it is, but that might be due to the upcoming ex-dividend date.
I wonder if EdwasdSeaton got them to disclose what some of these listed & unlisted investments actually are ?
LOTM
Hello Edward. How was the AGM? Did the board treat you to any new (or any at all!) info?
You’re going, that’s great. It would be good to your opinion / reaction from the meeting. All the best
Started: EdwardSeaton, 4 Mar 2024 11:18
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 6 Mar 2024 13:54
LAS are crazy not to buy Bisichi at this price.
£35.5m of Bisichi net assets are currently valued at £9.5m.
£4m for the shares they don't own, in return for an £8m share of Bisichi cash and investments. Plus a profitable coal mine and property investments in the side.
But then the Heller boys are a crazy pair...
If it wasn't for LAS owning 42% of Bisichi, I'd have a go at it myself - I wouldn't have to borrow a penny!
You could fund a takeover of Bisichi at 95p by using less than half of its cash and investment portfolio.
You'd be left with net assets of £25m, at zero cost.
You could offer a 50% premium, and still be left with funds to spare.
Madness...
Started: EdwardSeaton, 12 Feb 2024 15:01
Last post: Beza, 12 Feb 2024 23:56
I seem to remember that they promised last year to improve their website so it’s great that they’ve delivered on this.
The new website has gone live today.
Started: EdwardSeaton, 15 Dec 2023 11:54
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 30 Jan 2024 16:08
Well I'm only telling you what I can see further up this page. No sophistication from me.
Ok, so a trade was responsible? I thought the results were in April / May so unless they issued a profit warning (but I couldn’t see an rns) I couldn’t see what had happened.
This is Bisichi - I wouldn't expect an RNS for their annual results...
But I suspect we just found out what happens if someone sells (or buys) 40000 shares in 15 minutes.
What has happened here today? I can’t see an rns…
Started: EdwardSeaton, 30 Nov 2023 13:36
Last post: Beza, 14 Dec 2023 15:17
The market is being pretty generous to high yielded shares today (with the prediction that interest rates have peaked) but it looks as though we’re missing out. Perhaps in due course.
Not particularly good reading in either article when you think about the 2023 performance. There are possibilities for 2024 but how many times have they then failed to then materialise !
https://www.miningmx.com/news/energy/55142-exxaro-confirms-no-improvement-in-coal-exports-despite-helping-tfr/
https://www.miningmx.com/trending/55182-tfr-announces-plans-to-up-tempo-of-coal-deliveries/
LOTM
Https://www.miningmx.com/top-story/55179-sas-treasury-throws-transnet-debt-lifeline-with-r47bn-guarantee/
The last section in particular is encouraging. Nobody ever talks about export volume, but is is equally as important as the coal price.
Bisichi, as a minnow, has suffered terribly from the Transnet capacity constraints.
$110 at 'normal' RB export volumes would be substantially profitable.
I think we wait until Thungela gives us the market and trading update that Bisichi never will. Should be next week/week after.
As I have previously posted, some obsess about the Heller costs, but a £1m reduction last year would have made no difference to the current tragic share price.
Michael Heller is unlikely to replicate his cost this year.
The real failing is the lack of communication, the lack of a defined strategy, and the lack of a dividend policy.
They seem to encourage the market to assume the worst.
Apart from these guys like to pay themselves much more than sharing it! They do look cheap though, even with the RB prices way off their highs. Have you any profit, eps and divi figures pencilled in for next time Edward?
Started: JAdams5000, 2 Nov 2023 19:50
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 8 Nov 2023 10:16
Wrong country.
Newcastle gone from $160 to $120 in a month
All the income here pays the wages
Won’t be long before this is
Started: LOTM-13, 4 Oct 2023 03:43
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 6 Oct 2023 14:29
Far be it for me to tell you not to be cross about director costs, and I'm not saying I don't have a negative opinion.
I'm just saying that if they had paid themselves £2m rather than £4.5m in 2022, all other things being equal, I don't think the current share price would be materially different.
What would make a huge difference is clarity of onwards dividend policy, of investment holdings, of property assets, and of medium to long term strategy for their mining and investment holdings.
And the biggest difference of all would come from properly separating LAS and Bisichi.
EdwardSeaton,
For someone who say's he has a fair chunk of these, I find your last post absolutely astounding.
Directors Salary/Bonus & massive staff pay rises = money for them & not for shareholders.
The late M Heller got £200K basic & £580K bonus's in 2020.
1 exec director has been there since 2008 & doesn't own a single share in the company, yet took home £6,10K last year
Another since 2010 owns all of 40,000 shares & took home £1.078M last year.
The shares are impossible to value because of the director costs, while there filling there pockets each year you're getting crumbs & not for much longer..........
LOTM
Well, we know that M Heller won't cost £800k this year.
TBH, I don't much care what the directors cost - it's the opaque business structure and random dividend policy that irritates.
It makes valuing the shares a near-random exercise.
… completely agree. I think some have continued to hold in the belief that maybe the structural change of the directors following the death of M Heller would be the event that saw a change in particular areas, this being one of them.
I've just been looking through the accounts again & the amount this group of "fat cats" are awarding themselves in relation to the size of the company & what it is achieving is outrageous to say the least.
The directors banked £4.5M for 2022 (basically £4.4M for the 4 executive ones) .
The shareholders received half that amount in dividends.
The directors bonus is also linked to the bonus they've received in the previous 3 years! so the gravy train is stuck in a near endless loop of sheer greed.
They are only out to look after themselves, yes the sum of the parts maybe much higher than the current share price, but they will milk it dry long before shareholders get to see much of it. The coalmine has 6 years mine life left max (providing they don't come across other area's of it that are poor).
If you want to take a look at CNE, you'll see another company a much bigger one that had a board of directors full of themselves & not prioritising its shareholders. A one time FTSE-100 company no less. The new board of directors has come in & in the space of 7 months will have reduced G&A spend (which includes salaries) from $70M to just $20M & they believe they can get it lower than that!
Inside the next 4 years they will have saved shareholders more than the current value of the company!
BISI is a basket case, no accountability & no list of these so called investments & the quality of them or liquidity in them.
LOTM
Started: EdwardSeaton, 26 Sep 2023 11:20
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 26 Sep 2023 11:20
Can we all take note of the failure of the fabled correlation between the share price of mining stocks and the price of gas.
Started: JAdams5000, 23 Aug 2023 08:23
Last post: Beza, 19 Sep 2023 13:15
RB Coal price moving up. Coal price in general edging up. Electricity prices edging up. Oil price up quite a bit. Bodes well - fingers crossed.
StraightAIM - I'm certainly not saying the UK property business is bad - I'm just saying that the market will always see it as a bizarre irrelevance to what is a coal mining business. It's just as if Oxford Nanopore were to buy half a dozen small country house hotels.
The property should be sold to LAS, and LAS should be rid of its shares in Bisichi. Clarity of purpose would follow (for both companies), and so would share liquidity.
I don't have stockopedia, but with 10.7m shares issued, I don't see how they get an £18m profit and 53p eps? (The 53p makes sense, but not the £18m)
And any attempt at forecasting profit necessarily involves wild guesswork on production volume, how much Transnet will let them export, and of course, the price of coal.
£18m implies a record last quarter in every respect. I would say more like £6m to 8m would be very good, if all goes significantly well between now and year end.
Interesting to note that since the trading update Stockopedia have new forecast earnings figures. £18M profit and £0.53 eps. So even on lower profit we are still only trading on a forward per of 2.8.
I actually don't mind the UK property business - I think it's value is obscured by the fact that it's owned by a SA coal producer. Imagine what value you would ascribe to a property business with £10m+ of property, annual rental income of ~£1m, and a further £10m+ cash/investments. Haven't looked into the potential London development but would imagine there's probably another few £m value in that.
The way I look at it you're effectively getting the (profitable) coal business for free, with lottery ticket earnings potential if the thermal coal price tracks higher for longer again (and the rail transport issues are resolved).
On the other hand... corporate governance issues are real, and the commentary about looking for further coal based M&A opportunities is a potential concern until potential deal economics become clear.
Started: StraightAIM, 20 Aug 2023 19:29
Last post: StraightAIM, 21 Aug 2023 21:56
Appreciate the additional colour.
I think assuming that I can get comfortable with the numbers (being real), it really comes down to how, if and when the cash is distributed to shareholders. Some risk of a take private on unattractive terms.
Will dig further.
Very old, family operated company.
I would say fraud less likely here that pretty much anywhere.
Father recently died.
2 sons, 2 companies.
One company (LAS) owns 41% of the other (BISI).
Communication is poor. Website is feeble, liquidity miserable, dividends conservative, and coal rules out many potential buyers. But then you have a very stable and substantially profitable business, with cash and cash equivalents alone greatly in excess of market cap.
To my eyes, it is madly cheap, so I have progressly bought up a substantial holding. It will be interesting to see what effect the generational change has on the style and presentation of the company.
I also hold Thungela. 10 times the size, superb communication, vast dividends. There are very few cheaper shares out there. This is one of them.
Hi All,
Stumbled across this almost by accident and couldn't believe my eyes when seeing that it's trading for ~0.75x 2022 FCF! What's the story here? Is there any risk of fraud?
From what I can tell from a quick 20 min look:
1. Management barely communicate with shareholders.
2. It's not clear how existing cash assets are invested (mostly in other public companies?).
3. No guidance on what % of FCF will be paid out to shareholders. The div yield, although increased, is very modest in the context of how much cash they are generating.
4. They own a random real estate asset in the UK (why?!) which is again poorly described.
Seems absolutely crazy...
Started: CaneToad, 4 May 2023 14:11
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 18 Aug 2023 13:09
Yes, I have addressed the transparency of their investments on here before, and had a 30 minute conversation with Andrew Heller about it after their AGM, which I attended.
I understand that the investments are holdings in larger companies rather than small, speculative, minnows.
I 100% agree with you on liquidity. I also told AH that in my opinion, the 41% partial overlap of share ownership of Bisichi by LAS was the worst of all worlds. I would suggest a full merger, or complete separation of the two companies. As it is presents a confused buggers mess of unbalanced incentives.
He did comment that the appointment of John Heller to the Bisichi board would increase the call for Bisichi to pay bigger dividends.
Regarding the yield here. It's not that generous...
There are lots of investment-grade companies with track records of paying consistent 8-10% dividends and bid/offer spreads in the 10bp range. Why is BISI going to attract people? The divi is completely pointless when the spread is this wide.
"Ultimately, if this was a tech company, those numbers would be worth hundreds of millions of pounds."
I doubt it. Anything this illiquid is also shunned in the US. This is one of the least liquid stocks in the UK. It's very rare that anything in the US is this illiquid except on the pink sheets.
@Edward, there needs to be more transparency in precisely what equities they own. We have no idea where they've invested the money. The vast majority of investments in small/AIM stocks lose money, so the market is never going to give much value to such investments. There also needs to be some attempt at improving the liquidity - a 10% yield is completely unattractive when the spread is this large (often beyond 10% !). And the managemnet needs to stop operating entirely for their own benefit as they do.
The above are what I refer to by 'terrible' management.
I suppose to be fair, when saying 'terrible management', one is saying (quite specifically) terrible at doing things that would lead to the share price reflecting the fundamentals of the company.
Bur I'm not sure it is correct to say they are terrible at making the company profitable, because it is more profitable than some companies in the FTSE100.
And I must add that Thungela, which communicates superbly, and also pays extraordinary dividends, is almost as insanely cheap.
Ultimately, if this was a tech company, those numbers would be worth hundreds of millions of pounds.
Last post: Hiphopopotamus, 14 Aug 2023 19:39
It’s almost as though the board has a KPI on how bad they can make themselves look.
I’m wondering why this is still a PLC
Profit £26m
Cash and shares £24m
Market Cap £15m
However ineptly the directors of the company might present their story to the outside world, this remains endlessly amusing.
No interest here. Some selling too before results at or around the end of the month. I wonder what management will say.
My holding is split over two different brokers. One is now showing and all correct but the other is yet to apoear
Yes. They couldn't not pay the dividend, and say nothing.
May I suggest you change platform...
Started: EdwardSeaton, 22 May 2023 09:51
Last post: Beza, 22 May 2023 12:19
Edward, Stockopedia quotes the recent results as turnover - £M95
Profit - £M39
EPS - 204
Free cash flow per share - £202
If anyone is interested, I have (on numerous occasions) raised the nonsense PE/Dividend/Yield figures they quote for Bisichi with LSE.
Likewise, the absence of 2021 and 2022 Annual Accounts on the RNS Live.
My point to them is that if this information is so wildly wrong, it is very much worse than useless. For whatever reason, they appear helpless to rectify.
Started: Wiscos, 28 Apr 2023 09:06
Last post: Beza, 4 May 2023 19:47
Thanks for letting us know Edward. I wonder what the atmosphere will be at the AGM…
Previously, Beza, yes. But not this week.
I doubt the company has replied to any emails. Many years ago some investors tried to bring about change but directors ignored them as per usual.
Edward, perhaps a stupid question but has the company replied to any of your emails to date?
Another email I have sent to Heller:
FAO Andrew Heller - Re. Companies Act 2006
Dear Mr Heller
As you watch the value of your company being destroyed on a daily basis on the back of spectacularly good 2022 results, I draw your attention to the Companies Act 2006, which clearly obligates you and your fellow directors 'to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members'.
It strikes me that the rage of the market is due to the iniquitous distribution of the exceptional (and lucky) 2022 profit.
I do not believe the enormous bonus you have taken would have been an issue, were it not for the tiny percentage of the excess profit that has been distributed to other shareholders (c.10%).
The £12m you now have sitting in the shares of ambiguously specified other companies is cash that you have chosen to invest rather than distribute, without specifying why. Either prudence is necessary and collective, or not necessary. What you have created is a perception of 'bonanza for me, prudence for you lot'.
I am also concerned that the curious structure of London and Associated Properties plc and Bisichi plc creates a conflict of interest between you and your brother.
Any dividend paid by Bisichi plc is effectively a transfer from your fife to his, and without any balance.
I'm minded to forward this email to your auditors and solicitors for comment.
You may say I am wrong, but the market clearly agrees with me, and is in a very vengeful mood.
Bisichi plc is now trading on a P/E ratio of just 0.5. Any director of a substantially profitable company so condemned should be embarrassed and ashamed.
Yours sincerely
Edward Seaton
Started: EdwardSeaton, 2 May 2023 10:53
Last post: Wiscos, 2 May 2023 12:57
Love it! I wrote a scathing letter suggesting the company was run purely for the directors' friends and family and should nor be publicly listed. It's always a bit tricky when companies like this are listed - best just to avoid them... Mr acquire the whole thing and fire them! A takeover is the only defence against such profligate greed.
I have just emailed the following, and will continue to bombard:
Dear Mr Heller
You have now achieved the remarkable feat of having the lowest Price/Earnings ratio on the London Stock Market, whilst simultaneously reporting your best ever results.
Given that you are financially qualified, you cannot be mystified as to the reasons, very high up the list being evasiveness (last minute filing, pain of death trading updates) and ambiguity (£12m of investments in unspecified shares).
To be sitting on a P/E ratio of nearer 0.5 than 1 is such a spectacularly terrible achievement that I am left wondering if it is by design?
Yours sincerely
Edward Seaton
Started: Wiscos, 26 Apr 2023 22:12
Last post: Wiscos, 26 Apr 2023 22:12
A very banal statement about reducing carbon blah blah was put out this afternoon. Pleased to see it shouldn't undermine any other results imho. I wonder if we'll get the annual report tomorrow morning. Thursday is more usual than Friday!
Started: Wiscos, 19 Apr 2023 10:39
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 20 Apr 2023 14:28
I don't mean Bisichi is American. I mean the value attributed to American companies is not based on the dividends they pay.
You say the board are greedy. Who/how?
I think the issue is whether the BoD just distribute profits more for their own benefit than the general shareholders. Hoping the new Chairman is a bit more outward looking...
"Very few American companies pay a meaningful dividend."
Have you heard of a BDC? Almost all of those pay north of 10%.
American?
Quite obviously Bisichi is not going bankrupt.
It's share price has tripled in the last 2 years.
Very few American companies pay a meaningful dividend.
Started: EdwardSeaton, 6 Mar 2023 10:05
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 11 Apr 2023 19:35
None of my business, I know, but I'd be fascinated to hear the reasoning of the person who sold 2000 shares today (unless they just needed the funds).
I’ve nabbed this from the Thungela chat as it’s an article of interest for us Bisi holders.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/thermal-coal-imports-pick-up-most-asian-buyers-prices-moderate-russell-2023-03-30/
One more trading day until Thungela present their results, which will be of interest to Bisichi investors.
This share kind of reminds me of when, in April 2000 I bought shares in BAT. The price had dropped to £2.54 and they were paying out 24p/share divi, so getting on for 10%. Labour had just banned smoking inside pubs, tech / telecoms were all the rage (but were now starting to crash) and people were saying that the *** companies were finished. It never happened and sales kept increasing. BAT has been one of the FTSE best performers over the last 20 years. The debate about coal being finished is similar to what many journalists were saying about tobacco all those years ago.
I'd certainly buy LAS for £16m. It's an insanely cheap way to buy 42% of Bisichi, and you'd get £40m of good commercial property thrown in for free.
The death of Michael will certainly change the dynamic of the businesses in some way, tbc.
The curiosity is that one son runs one company, and the other runs the other. But if Bisichi pays a dividend, John Heller's company gets 42% of it. Andrew is not returned that favour. I don't know the relationship, but it does somewhat disincentivise massive Bisichi dividends (which Bisichi could certainly pay).
Having said all that, I don't think many people have taken on board just how spectacular the 2022 results are going to be for both Bisichi and the combined companies.
I'll be very surprised indeed if profit isn't at least £45m.
Started: EdwardSeaton, 23 Feb 2023 00:05
Last post: Beza, 23 Feb 2023 07:24
Unfortunately we have a long 2 month wait before we find out. These guys are not known for endless PR so I don’t expect that we’ll hear anything until results. I seem to recall that the board have options that can be exercised if the share price is above £3.52…
So here we are - finally, a company with a P/E of 0.5.
Has that happened before?
Started: EdwardSeaton, 10 Feb 2023 12:54
Last post: Beza, 11 Feb 2023 16:46
The oil price is up. Will Putin weaponise oil this year like he did gas over the last 18 months. Some people are speculating that he will. If he does this, the coal price will only be heading one way.
As per my post below, the thing that gets forgotten is that the share price never remotely reflected the upwards movement in the first place (hence the current absurdity of market cap being only 50% of profit).
Also, today (10th February), RB coal (LVG23) is 18.07% higher than it was on 10th February 2022. If it were not for the 2022 summer spike, the current price would be considered very strong.
Sooner or later (hopefully later, for those of us who are regular buyers), reality will overwhelm misplaced sentiment.
The results are going to be interesting here. Mr Heller senior is no longer with us (potential for some change) and what should have been an excellent 12 months figures will hopefully be announced to the market along with yet another special divi to underpin the share price.
The coal price has come right off though, which will explain the recent price weakness. Interesting to hear that the record low water / river levels across much of Europe is causing some countries to talk of a reduction in power generation from Nuclear and Hydro for the summer. nuclear stations may only discharge cooling water back to rivers below a certain temperature set by regulation and if it’s hot and the river level is low these stations have to reduce load to come in below the limit.
Market Cap £27m.
2022 profit c. £50m.
P/E of 0.5.
I'm wondering if there is a precedent for that with another company, either now, or in the past? Any suggestions?
Last post: robizm1001, 31 Jan 2023 21:45
They did RNS it here and LAS. Sad news.
Definitely the right Andrew Heller? If so, sad - and RIP.
Michael Heller has died according to sharecast. I assume that they’ll be an RNS tomorrow morning.
I've seen them get it wrong both ways, but you do need to know to just ignore all that 'data'. It's total junk! Keeping my fingers crossed for a little rise after divs are paid and any reinvestment takes place. Bit concerned over AGM votes which were not supportive of the board and hope the big reported profit last time was not a total aberration.
I agree that it is odd that very obvious 'buys' are shown as 'sells'. The reverse does not happen.
Anyway, the longer the Market Cap remains at just 50% of full year profit, the longer the insane buying opportunity continues. I wish I could invest more each month.
Started: EdwardSeaton, 13 Jan 2023 13:24
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 26 Jan 2023 09:39
I think that is a much too euro-centric explaination of what is happening, Beza.
China alone consumes 15 times more coal annually than the whole of Europe.
India consumes 3 times more than Europe.
If there is any one thing that is knocking the price of coal at the moment, it is that the Chinese economy is very very much weaker than the ludicrous official CCP figures suggest.
News that Europes gas storage is up to 75% capacity, a drop in the gas price, forecast milder weather across Europe this coming week and the possibility of increased LPG from the USA to Europe has knocked the coal price to below $160 (Richards Bay).
The share price should be higher than it was 12 months ago - the company has made, and almost entirely retained, the best part of £50m since last January.
As I recall, in 2021, they made £5.8m, and the average price achieved was $92.
Spot RBCT coal price is now back where it was before the Ukraine invasion a year ago ...but this sp is still much higher.
Coal price has halved since August '22 so at these prices our net profit is down about 75-80%. Question is how much 2023 production was forward sold in Q3/Q4 last year. It's possible management have locked in a price above $250 p.t for the whole year in which case this drop is irrelevant, or they stayed fully unhedged in which case things could get worse. But FY results for 2022 will be incredible and will get the attention of private investors chasing a quick buck, who don't fully understand the pricing dynamics of this market. You can't report £40m+ annual profit and be valued at £25m so I'm expecting a spike regardless of where spot coal goes in the next month or two.
Started: CAlderson1, 5 Jan 2023 09:12
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 10 Jan 2023 19:04
Correction, $174.
This time last year, the price was £174.
China lifted the ban on imports of Australian coal at the end of last week.
I'm certainly not the guru that is tim000, but my understanding is that the balance you are looking for is what they invested during 2022 H1 moving the mining area to a new, more cost efficient and more productive site.
Because of this, mining volume was only a little over half what would otherwise have been extracted, but they have previously said that they expect to make up this shortfall in H2 (such that total 2022 volume is similar to 2021 volume).
Hi Edward - I appreciate the apply. Sorry for the slow response..
I totally agree it feels massively undervalued. I am quite heavily invested in BISI (and did very well on TGA currently out) and considering whether to invest even further.
In terms of my initial question, it was from the numbers in the half yearly report. Specifically in the cash movements there was a cash outflow of £8,680k for cash flows from investing activities. Which appeared to be different form the £4,960k movement in working capital for the operational investment. However there was only an increase in 'other investments measured at fair value' in the BS from £2,721k to £6,418k. Which I was guessing could be equity investments. I don't tend to read ADVFN so might have a look back there but, that was where the numbers came from for the question :)
Thanks Beza.
I believe that ex divi date is tomorrow.
Any ideas on Divs? I am sure divs will be payable I read before.
Good morning.
Started: EdwardSeaton, 8 Dec 2022 09:47
Last post: EdwardSeaton, 3 Jan 2023 15:19
Basically, yes.
H1 profit (heavily impaired) was £22m.
Full year at, say, £45m, divided by 11m shares gives you your answer.
And a happy new year to you as well!
Hi Edward,
Happy New Year.
From your previous post are you implying that you believe that BISI will have an eps of approx 442p??
Or, have I calculated that wrong (at £10 per share)?
That would give it a PE of 2 rather than the current 0.7.
Hardly the stuff of fantasy.
Oh go on then, let's say ten quid
Would anyone care to predict what the Bisichi share price will hit this year???