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Driving a car is a privilege. You can't do it unless you jump through the hoops (pass a test, pay road tax, MOT your vehicle, don't drive when under the influence etc) that the Government sets for the benefit and safety of most people.
If you don't want to jump through the hoops (take a driving test etc) then you don't drive.
Going inside Sainburys shops, Odeon cinemas, your local pub, is not a right. You have to obey certain rules. Your'e not allowed to walk in naked, or armed with a gun, in this country.
So if the rules say you can only go in if jabbed, no one is forcing you to have a jab, any more than they are forcing you to wear clothes. It's just the sensible thing to do in a society.
So if you don't fancy a jab have you every right to decline it. Then just get your vaccinated mates to do your shopping for you, or shop on the internet, and don't go to the pictures – just get Netflix instead. That's your right.
You'd think that people are going to be 'press ganged' and thrown to the floor and forcefully jabbed. (Maybe that'd be the PRC way.)
.... Or are people threatening to riot as they don't like the rules that the majority (in a democracy) have accepted? If more than 50% are jabbed, isn't that a kind or referendum on the jab whether one agrees or not?
To add another point that gets missed by everybody - vaccinating millions of younger healthy people uses up an immense amount of healthcare resources.
Huge numbers of people are living in pain or dying because they cannot get medical treatment, and some of this is as a direct result of healthcare resources being directed into vaccinations.
So to argue that vaccinations protect the NHS is not strictly true. For the elderly, yes, it does. But for the young, its incredibly ineffective as it takes many 1000s of jabs to stop just 1 hospitalisation. And lets not forget, the jabs don't prevent spread.
@MALTBY2002: I've read what you have written - and I feel your passion. However, your arguments can be summed up succinctly - emotional blackmail (seems it's not only the government who use such tactics). Believe it or not, and I suspect you won't, there are those who believe there are some things in life even more important and valuable than the NHS.
IMHO of course.
Whilst the pandemonium of Omnicom variant takes hold, has there never been a better time for HUA of Avactas LFT. It’s becoming clear that testing is going to be around for a long time and there must be worldwide demand for all LFT’s including ours, I think there is still lots of news to come out and our time will come soon. Looking at the SP , I believe we will move upwards from this point with some positive news , I just hope the quiet Dr Al has something up his sleeve before Christmas to cheer us all up. GLA.
Thank you Losta for putting the counter argument so succinctly. I repeat a point I made earlier. If it was your loved one with a life threatening illness who was unable to access a hospital bed because it was filled with someone who had Covid because they had refused the vaccine would you still feel the same way?
Relax, Javid is on the record for saying the UK would never introduce mandatory vaccination. Oh forgot, we did at one time have a Compulsory Vaccination Act, back in 1853 !
You completely miss the point!
Get vaccinated and saves hospital beds for all age groups with all manner of illnesses.
Its scary how many people go full on fascist when it comes to covid.
Average age of death from covid is 82. Thats higher than average age of death for non covid reasons. And yet paranoia reigns supreme, because of the fear spread by governments, the media, big tech and big pharma.
Well done rxdav for bringing some sense to this conversation.
Thank you for a sensible post #rxdav.. agree with every point..
I did think poor old Bella really had lost it when I read that post
Interesting discussion on sng board re docs released about Pfizer jab.
Is it safe ? Hope so as I've had 2 of them.
https://t.co/cvhiHeDtmq
1223 deaths out of 30000 trialled (see table)
I've cancelled my 3rd jab. Happy enough to have been double jabbed as I genuinely thought I would be protected. Mate had his booster last week, they gave him Moderna whereas his first 2 were the Oxford. Apparently not giving Oxford anymore. He was quite ill for 24hrs. I've come to the conclusion that the Government are clutching at straws. If their answer is to just keep pumping whatever it is in the vaccines into us and hoping for the best then I'm out. Do we just keep having a booster every 3 months??
@Bella6532: Just got back in and spotted your response - a few points:
1. 'What don't people understand..we can't live with Covid..' - As has been pointed out, we already are living with Covid and have been for some time now.
2. 'This is not flu...' - neither is it Ebola or Bubonic Plague - get it in perspective.
3. Without mandatory vaccinations it will be impossible to get on top of - What about the appropriate use of rapid accurate testing (now who does that?)?
4. 'All this thin edge of the wedge is ridiculous' - You really think so? (If yes, you're pretty naïve and myopic I reckon).
5. 'Many thinks are mandatory...' - Ergo everything should be mandatory? I think not.
6. 'If you don't want mandatory vaccinations then as far as I'm concerned if you get Covid and need to be hospitalised then you go private or pay the costs...' Same argument often used about smokers, drinkers etc. - no traction there.
7. 'Making masks compulsory everywhere us no biggie either.' At home, in bed, in the shower?
8. 'When the NHS collapses because of a few whingers you will all be saying why didn't the Govt make vaccinations mandatory.' - A few whingers eh? Make that several million citizens who don't agree with getting vaccinated.
9. 'The NHS is currently hold together by a thread of extremely loyal and dedicated staff who are themselves a breaking point.' - If that was the case then we would be in full lock down now - it clearly isn't.
10. 'Get over it guys get the jab and make sure anyone you know gets it too.' I encourage folks to do so - but would never mandate it - smacks of a certain 'holier than thou' arrogance to suggest it imho.
Guess I won't be on your Christmas card list this year Bella - sorry - but I really think you need to get real.
All IMHO of course.
It doesn’t matter what we think on here, this government has tested the general publics patience. If they try to impose mandatory vaccinations the kick off will be immense. You can not force medicine on people. If they don’t want to take it they don’t have to. It’s a persons choice. I’m double vaxxed but I do not believe the people of any country are the property of that country.
Coolfree
I’m double vaxxed and got asked playing golf today what do you think would happen if we brought it in here?
My reply
I think they will smash this country to pieces
Riots like you’ve never seen before is what I think will happen
Democracy leaves choice as an option until acts of parliament change a situation. Bad laws can be like bad viruses taking a while for humanity to shake off. Democracy can act like a virus if badly implemented- QE and low interest rates? Free rein for covid with a decent LFT for self isolation (self imposed) and vaccine if you want one otherwise hands off approach is my prescription.
Fluid situation....don't know tbh but just adding a bit of balance to your statement.
Civil liberties regarding mandating compulsory vaccination are fine as long as you are not one of the thousands of people up and down the country waiting for emergency operations because hospital beds are filled with Covid patients who have refused the jab. What about their civil liberties. Nor do I accept the argument that because this Government is inept and corrupt, which it is, you cannot trust what they are injecting into your arm when every other Government across the globe is doing it. Equally no Government can make decisions regarding a nation’s health on the basis that it might lead to some kind of national insurrection. That is more likely to happen if a more potent mutation is allowed to spread amongst a population who are largely unvaccinated and it leads to widespread bankruptcies and mass unemployment
If Covid caused a small percentage of middle aged mens p3nises to turn black and drop off I’m convinced that we would be hearing a lot less about ‘having to just live with Covid’.
@rxdav
Your comments are fair.
Question is, how do we get everyone (young & old) back to more safe and normal living?
Like you I am fully vaccinated (x3) but remain cautious. I appreciate the ongoing efforts made by the NHS.
I where a face mask in public places (shops, bars, etc). Anywhere where there may be a risk. Wearing a face mask for long periods of time is not ideal but it does help to protect others.
Not everyone wants to be vaccinated (free-choice) but there is a risk for them and to others. Also an additional burden on the NHS.
The latest proposal to test before travel to the UK will also help to reduce the risk of different strains coming in to the UK, (600 passengers on two flights to the Netherlands. 61 had the new Omicron strain).
There are different policies from the different UK governing bodies being introduced and tweaked on a daily basis. Perhaps our leaders in all 4 nations need to agree a single clear policy that we can all understand and follow?
Do you believe you are typical Donkey?
Or is everybody else lying?
Had face to face appointment with Doctor at surgery first thing Friday having rung up 3pm the previous day. No problem.
It depends on what you mean when you say "we can't live with Covid.." Bella.
Clearly WE ARE living with covid as is the rest of the world.
(The conceit of people who think we can control this natural event, whatever its origins). This is not the first virus to come on this earth that affects humans, and yet here we still are.
There is a lot more wrong with the NHS than covid
5% of hospital beds currently are down to covid compared to 31% at its peak, 111 calls should be answered in 20 seconds but it can be 20 mins in some parts of the country. Ambualnce times are longer now than last year in the height of hospitalisations.
More doctors had face to face appointments then than now.
So in desperation many swamp A&E making some waiting times 12 hours.
So I hope you are not obese or smoke, or hurt yourself in your exercise regime or take any drugs, drink or get drunk.
Don't slip on ice and break a limb for being so reckless as to go out in those conditions. And please never be the cause of a traffic accident.
I hope you don't catch a cold and then go into work and spreading that in case somebody else catches it and passes it on to a vulnerable person. Because you had better not ask for treatment (Oh and there is little evidence that mask wearing helps, unless its the right mask/material, worn in the correct manner and changed frequently.
And then guess what... you are still going to get it.
I don't know if you have realised it yet... But none of us getting out of here.
Wiggly, original poster, was saying time to get back to testing. Vaccines wear off and not all want them(a valuable control group ) , Andrew Marr-208,000 children out of school, a number that could probably have been a lot lot less if AffiDX had been authorised, Pinball proved that, why can it not be authorised via flowflex comparison trial, pinhead politicians.
Actually, a yearly subscription to undertake a daily Avacta test for anyone not will to vax, seems a reasonable compromise!
What don't people understand..we can't live with Covid..
This is not flu...
Without mandatory vaccinations it will be impossible to get on top of.
All this thin edge of the wedge is ridiculous.
Many thinks are mandatory...
If you don't want mandatory vaccinations then as far as I'm concerned if you get Covid and need to be hospitalised then you go private or pay the costs...
Making masks compulsory everywhere us no biggie either.
When the NHS collapses because of a few whingers you will all be saying why didn't the Govt make vaccinations mandatory.
The NHS is currently hold together by a thread of extremely loyal and dedicated staff who are themselves a breaking point. Get over it guys get the jab and make sure anyone you know gets it too.