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Covid-19 has changed the landscape. Better move sooner imo rather than later. They need to be tied legally and financially. Better get a foot in now with more to come before Trump and Boris (I hope he’s well) start to make China pay. That first line would be no new trade and a people’s don’t buy Chinese revolt. It’s pretty odds on something left field will happen, I would be amazed if the RoW just took it on the chin. I just hope it all stays reasonable and fizzles out quickly. It’s just us poor PI’s get caught in the crossfire. I have a significant investment in TXP, and absolute gem, took me an age to find and you end up going back to square one in a blink similar to here.
Trek
Another perspective off a twitter poster . "Had not failed at all. It has changed for the benefit of VRS. We now have a deal that will allow VRS to take substantial cash and profits out of China. Direct investment by BIGT would not allow that. JV will!"
I try to keep it simple, BIGT is restricted by the Chinese Govt on the investment criteria and YG isn't " YG, with the support of both BIGT and CIGIU was established to facilitate, inter alia, an acceptable investment into the Company."
To me it says BIGT can't do it due to those restrictions but they support the investment through YG i.e. get the deal done that way at an acceptable price to VRS for the investment, Somewhere around £1.20 was where I had it at the time of the AGM but Patrick in his kiss and tell with TW said 1.40/50 which would be a small price to pay for what they get.
Trek, its all above my head and complex but reading between the lines , NR wants 1 big deal nailed on from China BIGT before anything happens. BIGT may talk the talk but will they walk it ?
For me this is the pinchpoint regards risk for vrs and reward or not. The next 3-6 months imho make or break ?
Note NR has cited that the sp is not at a level that would deem the Chinese investment acceptable, or words to that effect. Tagged on at the end of the Lanstead explanation! Tsk tsk! They could over pay, there are other options to the jv, financing production, buying shares later etc. Looks like we have to wait or is it more than that. NR can read the landscape as well. I am a holder here but all looks curios.
Trek
Well Trek , it's an interesting debate on that particular subject. Two UKgov secondees to promote VRS worldwide and yet the UK gov has done nothing to promote the industrialisation of graphene and 2D materials in the UK. China see the benefits and do something about it , if production rather than research was focused on who knows?
However, back to the original point , secondees in the company to promote it worldwide as trade is what will make or break the UK in the future, cake and eat it scenario?
I get the feeling with Boris ‘day of reckoning’ and Trump likewise will soon be psd off. China will see a backlash coming and will probably get a wiggle on! The hardball, however, is likely in NR’s court well and truly now and he will be mindful of VRS’s wider international standing should they ‘over commit’. It’s all gonna get very interesting imo.
Trek
Me neither as they only usually support Chinese companies, makes you wonder what they find so special about VRS considering there are many companies around the world claiming they can produce 000's of tonnes, maybe it is something to do with the quality that they haven't been able to master consistently.
If we wait for those other countries to wake up and smell the coffee Robin it could be a long long time waiting. Like 5G China will lead and others follow and then complain that China has underhand intentions .
Hello RobinHood69, "Lucky and Jimmy. Hi. Have you any experiences of holding an investment specifically within Chinese Gov funded / part funded ? " . Nope, I can't say I have any knowledge or experience in that matter.
Lucky and Jimmy. Hi. Have you any experiences of holding an investment specifically within Chinese Gov funded / part funded ? I'd be interested to know please if there was anything to note. Tesla is not allowed lol, they just want to rework the tech so they can catch up with Musk imho.
I would much prefer to hear about deals in the US, India and Japan tbh along side China.
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories. At worst China had an oh foook moment after realising that their frowned on animal restaurants etc essentially facilitated a virus jumping from beast to man and they might not have handled things in a 100% open fashion.
That happens everywhere from small companies to multinationals (not the virus thing of course).
It is an interesting deal fatherelmer and one that I am still getting my head around. The 'strike' price on the shares was set some time back and do wonder if it will be around the Gnano price , i.e. if you suddenly tried to buy 8 million shares in the market what would be the average price paid?
Lanstead if the deal is as I see it are unlikely to let their early shares go cheaply if the deal is struck with China, makes more sense to keep those to maximise profit in the future and they can always buy at a discount to the market price as they 'pay' for each lot. I do know that the Ceres Power model was mentioned at one point but this deal is different as it is staged over two years and a lot can happen in that time as each country will invest in infrastructure to get back on track economically.
China will be the first of course with the risk being there will be a second phase of Covid but hopefully by that time all countries will be better prepared and maybe we will be nearer to or have an acceptable 'cure' for it.
As far as the conspiracy stuff about China goes I don't buy into it and smacks a little of the US and the 'commie' threat going back to the cold war where there is always a blame game.
China is a trading country and who knows whether some other country wanted to hold them back so that they don't dominate as the biggest world economy? All a horrible game .
The most important thing about VRS at the moment in the current climate is that they have money for more than two years and the China deal is on the cards, let's see how it develops, better to be in a company that you know doesn't need to raise to keep the lights on !
Fathetelmer, when NR was talking before the AGM he was suggesting the BIGT deal would be around this date , give or take a month. The price at the time aporox £1.10.
Gnanomat deal at £1.40's.
The Chinese are extremely hard to negotiate with and really hard ball people to work with. If 100+ companies in China want a piece of vrs tech then will they not all have very specific demands on grade of nanene or hexo or ploygrene or biotene ? This supply to such an open market is huge which sounds great but when all 100+ are on projects requiring these specifics then is going to get complicated ?
£1.10 to 30-50p a great get in price but why not buy the whole lot at this price ?
I was just mulling this over and wonder if the recent Lanstead deal sets a precedent / benchmark for the price that VRS will be looking for in the 5% sale due by 30th June 2020??
This would be a 53.8% premium to the prevailing price - which if taken on the close today would give an SP of £0.83. Which in turn would raise £3.5m for BVT and £3.5m for VRS (and also happily cause Lanstead to pay £389k under the sharing agreement in June).