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All purchases, save a few in Feb below 67p, since October 2011 are underwater including all dividends. Purchases from July 99 to Dec 2000 are also underwater including divs.
In terms of SP only, now back to November 1997
Quite an achievement.
Divs paid by borrowing don't work.
Gar
''I get your point long but how long before the money is available?''
Monies should be available for buybacks by about or before the end of June I believe.
Rob
''I've been invested here since 2017''
I have been invested a lot longer (a long time before the Verison return of capital) , with a highest selling price of 255p on 26th May 2015.
''The longer anyone's been invested here the more they have lost''
??
that depends upon purchase and sale levels over the years .
I would need a little bit of an increase from here to get to an average price, but I have received a fortune in dividends over the many years.
Hopefully Dan will come back to tell me off now, he doesn't like me putting lol
Come on Dan get back here mate
Garonne, I'm a Vodafone holder, I can't afford the £12 subscription charge to read that lol
Hopefully tomorrow will be a rewarding day
Gl
Sorry. Just noticed it's already posted!
Https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/news/2024/03/20/understanding-vodafone-s-tricky-investment-case/
Another mostly negative article. Vodafone never receives much positive press. Is it time to take a hit?
Much more interesting
https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/news/2024/03/20/understanding-vodafone-s-tricky-investment-case/
Https://www.lightreading.com/business-transformation/the-managed-decline-of-vodafone
I like to mess about with negativity but this article takes it to a whole new level. Its like guttersnipe with a spell checker :-).
Overall very poorly researched, emotive article. Who cares what the share price was 20 years ago, next 10 years is all that matters.
Vodafone did foray into TechCo under Read but thats long dead and irrelevant. Seems to complain about API development but this is misinformed. APIs are mandatory for all Telcos and rather than being "spectrum holders", Telcos are "subscriber holders". Monetising this makes APIs mandatory.
Vantage towers is a standard Telco move, everyone has done the same, so its a trend, not positive, not negative. Finally, overstaffing is an old problem going back to acquisition days, to be fair to MDV, this is one issue she is definitely addressing.
Overall, C- for the article, good grammar, good analysis but must work harder on research and developing own ideas.
I get your point long but how long before the money is available? The prospect of watching this stagnate in the mid 60s for months, is quite depressing. Hopefully, the £2 billion from Spain will not be too far off though.
Long, you have a good point with that one, maybe if the current share price was a lot higher then investors would be thinking now is a good time to sell, but who would want to sell at these prices?
Everyone's circumstances are different here, if your thinking of holding long time then the buybacks might be beneficial, it depends on how rewarding you think this share will be over the next 5 years, this could be Back up to £2 or it could be as underperforming as it's been over the last 5 years, who knows?
I've been invested here since 2017 and every year posters here have been saying this will get better, just like you are saying now, but every year it's just got worse and worse, The longer anyone's been invested here the more they have lost, one good thing is it does appear to have reached it's bottom, however we all know there's a recession in Germany, Vodafone's biggest market, so my concern at the moment is the upcoming results
Personally, i just want this to rise as quickly as possible so i can offload some or all of my shares
It's not just a question of the P&L impact, although I think you are massively overstated how much interest corporations make on bank balance's, it nowhere near 6%.
The bugger issue is the cost of capital, which is after tax cost of debt x debt % + cost of equity x equity %
Equity is always higher than debt, debt would be about 5% at most, equity is normally >10%, so if you reduce debt and don't reduce equity in the same proportion then your cost of capital goes up. They are already struggling to make returns in excess of cost of capital now, increas that cost of capital and it becomes impossible.
So long story short they are reducing the net debt position and the equity via buyback of shares, so yes at this point in time that is the best choice. Normal gearing is about 70% debt 30% equity, so the amount of buybacks makes sense to me to keep that ratio and therefor not change the cost of debt.
Gar
''She hasn't really followed up on recent events with any major PR effort to boost investor confidence, which is disappointing and detrimental to the SP''
who on earth from investors holding for the long term would want a much higher share price, before 4 Billion has been invested on the Vodafone share repurchases. The price per share of course could be anywhere during the spending of that money, but personally I would rather spend 4 Billion at 70p per share than 100p per share.
Rob
''Well it doesn't look like the announcement of buybacks/Italian sale or next years dividend reduction has done much to boost confidence in this share''
You may find that there were posts on here saying that there would be a crash in share price with news of a slashing in the dividend amount - it hasn't happened.
Flec
''I have no idea how one vs the other would play out financially''
Cancelling shares that once had a right to double digit dividends is by far the better investment from some of the asset sale proceeds than keeping cash ( I very much doubt, that keeping that 4 Billion in cash would have had any contemplation given to it at all).
4.5 c per share dividend is due in August. Would have been good to have got the buyback machine up and running before then . Once shares have disappeared , that is zero dividend that needs to be paid on them forever more. The forward dividend amount saved, hopefully will be an increasing one from the re based amount. Interest rates from here are more likely to decrease from here rather than stay stagnate or increase.
You could still sell Garonne. No point sticking around being disillusioned with vod.
Nothing seems to change the sentiment towards VOD, robleo. If they can get their German market performing better then maybe results might surprise to the upside. As Vodafone's biggest market Germany must be their main focus to improve overall profitability. I must confess though, I'm very disillusioned with VOD and its CEO. She hasn't really followed up on recent events with any major PR effort to boost investor confidence, which is disappointing and detrimental to the SP, particularly when enthusiasm for VOD is so low.
Well it doesn't look like the announcement of buybacks/Italian sale or next years dividend reduction has done much to boost confidence in this share, so what are everyone's thoughts on the Final results on 14 May 2024 are you expecting them to be good or bad
cheers
20-Mar-24 16:35:03 67.28 19,115,179 Buy* 67.40 67.41 13m UT
You're correct companies pay Corporation Tax on profits before dividends are distributed, so paying a dividend doesn't affect the corporation tax bill. Interest earned as a result of banking the €4 Billion would be recorded as a profit, so taxable, whereas any savings in Dividend payout's due to the buybacks would be realised after Tax. There are other considerations, for example €4 Billion in the bank would reduce the Net Debt figure, and any interest earned deducts from the interest paid on the debt. Buybacks are probably an easier and safer bet, but I have no idea how one vs the other would play out financially, It's swings and roundabouts as far as I can tell. If there are any accountants on here, maybe they could educate us?
Fleecy, yesterday you compared the “annual dividend savings” made possible by the buyback with the amount of money that Vodafone could earn if it banked 4Billion. While the comparison is purely theoretical, the figures are interesting.
In my opinion the two figures are not directly comparable, because one is after tax, the other one is before tax.
The annual dividend savings (€218,414,635) are after tax, because dividends are paid out of net earnings.
On the other side, I suppose that the amount that Vodafone could earn if it banked the 4B (€240,000,000) is before tax.
This might have some relevance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V90AmXnguw
Any other thoughts?
Thanks for sharing thriller.
I was thinking of investing here for the dividend, but not now with the cut in dividend. i think I'll stick with Iag.