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Rob, did I ever show you the chart for fleccy1 and fleccy2, and the effect of reinvesting dividends when the price drops?
Fleccy1 and Fleccy2 live in alternate universes and they both buy £100,000 in a company stock, they then annually reinvest the dividends over 30 years following the initial £100,000 investment. Fleccy2 (possibly me 🫤) see's the share price drop by half in the first year, with both Fleccy's then seeing the stock price stagnate for the whole reinvestment period.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRYwu6rv7Vk2093vnE9975iJIfiNBDGYW08VmYU2MK2tsi0o9bA3rDwV9NV0XA6QJrkQeqet_jppwWg/pubchart?oid=1399088825&format=interactive
Because the price halves for Fleccy2 his dividend reinvestment buys twice the shares of Fleccy1's reinvestment, his portfolio grows more quickly and eventually overtakes Fleccy1's portfolio where the price remained the same. The idea of the chart is to demonstrate the power of compounding using dividend reinvestment when the price drops. It's an exaggerated example, but nicely demonstrates what I'm talking about.
Fleccy. I like that one. English is a very confusing language sometimes.
Rob. I was very tempted to name them, but would I ? Not looking too bad today, up on the closing pre-divi price minus the divi. but only just. Hoping for a good Friday.
Rob, “the stock market is a device to transfer money from the impatient to the patient.”
Well spotted Dan, I'm going to blame this predictive texts, come to think of it though,there do seem to be a few patients here
Rob. "Hope we will all be rewarded for our patients here". Who are these patients on here that you refer to? they can't help it! Only jokiing, I had to check the spelling myself.
Hi Fleccy, If there was an award for the most patient investor, i would give to you for sure, and i mean that as a compliment
If i compare this with 3 of my better investments lgen/aviv and mng they all pay good dividends but are also all in profit , so no loss of capital, i do of course have others that have not worked out so well, just saying though we will need to get that loss of capital back eventually to make it all worth while, so let's hope we will all eventually get rewarded for our patients here
best of luck
Dan i like to share some of my profits with the broker for all their hard work, don't be so mean, i am only joking of course, most of my investments are in my sipp and don't want all the hassle of changing, and they do have a good selection of funds available, maybe i should switch my stocks and shares isa though hl are expensive
Thanks fleccy. I am glad I don't pay fees as I have saved £360 over the last 5 years. Better than nothing! Cheers.
My wife has shares in a standard share dealing account, but she's a non earner and the dividends generated there come in below the income tax threshold of £12,570. We also have two ISA's which house the rest of our shares. The total admin charge for both sets of accounts is £72 a year (£36 each). £72 a year is insignificant considering the dividend income.
Thanks for your reply fleccy. Do you have to pay to hold your shares in your I.S.A.'s as that can be a big dent. Some do, but I don't.
"Talk about my glass is always half full, i bet you always see yours as 3/4 full fleccy mate"
I'm stuck in awaiting a delivery so I thought I'd respond to you Rob.
If I was to use a similar metaphor, I'd describe it as a glass that tops itself up year on year. I realise that dividends take time to compensate for large drops in share prices, where drops leave investors sitting on paper losses, but they do give choices. After this latest Vodafone top up the dividends across all our holdings should bring in over £27,600 tax free, assuming all the dividends are maintained going forward, if I remove the yearly Vodafone dividend income the other holdings bring in just over £19,000; The dividends give me the choice to grow the holdings through reinvestment, or use the cash for other things, which is why I decided to invest in dividend paying stocks.
UK stocks have been hammered for years and Telecom stocks doubly so, will that situation persist forever? I don't think it will, and as the saying goes all boats rise when the tide comes in.
I was lucky enough with two shares one with RR which i bought at 68p &sold at £2,the other was SFOR Martin Sorrels new baby when he was ousted at WPP bought in at 148p and sold for £8 plus look at the sp now 48p !!
My message is you just dont know how the sp is going to perform but im confident with the new ceo at VOD i have bought in and will hold for a while.
Dan I normally invest for dividends and was recently waiting for BT to drop below 110p, at which point I was going to top up using the £20,000 I've just directed into Vodafone, but BT jumped 10% in short order. At the same time as I was considering BT, I was also aware that a top up of Vodafone would considerably reduce the average cost per share there and in the end I decided to go for the VOD average cost per share reduction. One reason I was hesitant to invest in Vodafone is because I consider the dividend as unsafe and realise that it could be reduced or dropped next year, but I still decided to top up Vodafone with that in mind.
I'm betting that Vodafone will soon see large increases in the share price, because of the planned restructuring. I think the VOD/Three merger will be allowed, even though logic suggests the CMA would block it and I also believe the disposals will deduct from the Net Debt. As much as I love the dividends, I believe Vodafone should reduce or drop them if they're unaffordable, although I'm not sure they are unaffordable. If the dividends are maintained going forward, I've just locked in a 10% yield on the 28,000 share top up, so I've pretty much considered all eventualities.
Dan, we are all aware this has been a bad investment in the past, disappointed in it of course, but we will have to accept it and move on
right now the share price is so low, i'm thinking there's more chance of it rising than dropping, and i don't think i could sell any of my shares for under a £1 and re access the situation then, if only we had one of those crystal balls
but best of luck to you and all voders
Rob, Sorry if I am being a bit unfair to fleccy, but he sees his glass as 100% full. Dangerous things spreedsheets, they come up with all sorts of nonsense if you want them to! I hope though fleccy is right with his very optomistic views, who knows. Cheers Amigo.
Fleccy. Your figures only work if the vod sp gets back to your average price, which may not happen. You are chasing your losses the same as me, but at least I admit it. Anyway, good luck, because we both need it. You also need a bit of honesty I feel? Forget spread sheets, try basic arithmatic/common sense.
Talk about my glass is always half full, i bet you always see yours as 3/4 full fleccy mate
RE: I'm not bothered what the share price does in the short term, I'm in no hurry to sell
surely everyone is bothered if they are losing more and more of their capital every year, if not they should be, especially when there's no guarantee they will ever get it back,sorry mate but sometimes you just have to get real and accept it
but best of luck with it though
Nothing crazy about it Daniel, we dropped our average cost per share by 19p a share, multiply that by our new current holding of 109,734 shares and you get £20,849.46. I know it's an unusual way of looking at it, but it's a metric I decided to include when I was deciding where to invest. I also considered BT which came back with an average of £10,697.48 using the same formula, Lloyds came back with an average of £2,365.14. Ok I haven't really received that as a return and I could lose big time if the price drops from here, but that's the chance you take when you invest. Whichever way the price goes from here, every penny equates to an additional £1,097.34 paper gain/loss either way. In basic terms Vodafone saw a reduction in average cost per share nearly double what I'd have seen had I topped up BT, and Lloyds would have only seen a 1p per share reduction had I decided to top up there.
I can't see VOD dropping too far from here, but I said the same thing when it was a £1 and look where it is now, you pay your money and take your chances.
Fleecys, it all sounds a bit nerdy.
I spend most of my time lately on eBay trying to get a nice Vauxhall Corsa for £600.
Unfortunately second hand cars has more than doubled since COVID arrived.
Doubt your computer saw that coming.
I can do it in my head Gutter, but my spreadsheet updates every minute for all our holdings and gives me up to the minute changes. It does lots of other things too, not just the calculator I mentioned in this thread.
You should learn how to build spreadsheets Gutter, it makes life much simpler.
Fleccy, now you are really starting to worry me mate. You bought 28275 vod shares at70.34 & they are now worth 70.81, a profit of £135, 70.81 minus 70.34 = 47. 47 x 28275 = a profit of £135. Forget your spread sheets, try basic maths. Well done with your £135 profit, but give us a break please? Now wonder many on here are worried, with crazy logic like that!
Fleeces, if you was any good you could do all that in your head like I does.
You is probably slightly special needs.
Jax. Why are you back in at all? If you think it is a dog. Is there something wrong with you??
"Of course tommorow they may fall, but I hope not. Is lowering your average wise (chasing your losses)"
I have a calculator on a Google spreadsheet that looks at our current holdings, across the different accounts, as well as the live prices and the amount I want to top up; The calculator has the following fields:
Calculate Number of shares after Top up
Current number of shares
Price per share of current holding
Amount to invest
Current price of Stock
Dealing Charge
Stamp Duty (0.5%)
Number of shares purchased
Total number of shares after purchase
Average price per share after purchase
Book cost of shareholding after purchase
Reduction in average cost per share
% Reduction in average cost per share
Total shares after purchase x Reduction in Avg cost per share
In the case of Vodafone, for a £20,000 top up it told me the number of shares and the average price after top up; And the final field "Total shares after purchase x Reduction in Avg cost per share" returned a figure of over £20, 800, which is actually higher than the amount I was using to top up with. Basically I invested £20,000, but knocked nearly £21,000 off the average cost across our total VOD shares after top up. It's like I invested £20,000 and got nearly £21,000 back, does that make sense?
I'm not bothered what the share price does in the short term, I'm in no hurry to sell.
I guess the big fear here is that it won't recover. TBH, I'm starting to get concerned as there is zero sign of any kind of turnaround in the SP. It's going to be in the 60s tomorrow potentially and unlike RR there's no obvious catalyst for a big uptick. RR was able to recover due to its revenue exponentially increasing once wide body jets started flying again but VOD's operation is in full swing yet the trend is ever downwards. It really is a shocker. I mean if the market was confident in Margherita's plan you'd think there would be at least some recovery but as this is not the case it implies that Mr. Market is not impressed with her efforts so far. Time for her to go?