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Thanks, Mike, for that extremely well thought out reply. I totally agree with you comments on the US market and its impact on us & TUI - time and again I have seen, as you have, that it opens poorly and we slump, then we close and it trends up. What confused / confuses me is that these last two slumps happened an hour more more BEFORE the US markets open. Perhaps there is some pre-opening activity that triggers it. But usually a bad US opening can be predicted from Futures so why does London - dozens of different shares (Kingfisher, Pets at Home, TUI etc - all panic within minutes of each other? And then, usually, recover, at least a little bit. I always think it must be a rate announcement or a report on jobs or home sales or something. At least, as you suggest, today is likely to open up. Fingers crossed.
Hi WackWack,
As frustrated as you are - so we we're up 10p at our best today and ended -3.5p, which I know is neither here nor there in reality, BUT like you and I'm sure everyone else, prefer to see us in the green each and every day.
As SK has suggested, I equally agree that it's the US markets that are clearly leading the pack and when they have a bad day, like today, we all follow downwards. Also, the US markets typically 'plunge' mid pm and then after we close in Europe, they tend to 'miraculously' head upwards, which again they are doing right now. The only good news out of that, is that it suggests we are likely to open on the 'up' tomorrow - when I say, 'we', I mean the markets and just have to then see what it means for ourselves and Tui.
Guess for me, I always look at our market generally and if everyone else is down - which apart from Wizz at a tiny 2p in the green - everyone else in our market was down too - when that happens, I'm ok with it!
Mike --- All in the same note including everything in my other posts today. Would have liked to have put a copy on here but just don't know how to do it with my tablet. But yes as stated we on Halifax have until 15th May to trade Tui on Halifax.
Lots of US data has been released Tue, Wed + today (ahead of market open just like they do here)... could those be the triggers?
For the second day in a row, every share I track has had a good morning then tanked post 1 pm - yesterday close to 1.30 pm, today 1.15 pm. Some announcement / figures somewhere seems to kill the day. Any hints please?
The statement from Halifax also states:
"Following completion of the move to Frankfurt, you will be subject to our International Trading Model. All details, including Dealing Charges, FX Charges and TradePlans Policy, can be found on our website. "
This suggests, investors will CONTINUE to see their listing on Halifax, just traded via international and currency conversion etc as you do when you buy US or other foreign stocks and shares.
I personally think the approach is good and takes care of the process well for investors on Halifax.
I have been holding TUI for sometime and now they have returned to profit, need to see a re-rate at some point.
That's a really curious approach and perhaps you were correct Mike, maybe their systems cannot handle it so they've had to outsource the solution and go ahead of the pack to ensure it processes correctly/orderly from them and their clients perspective.
Hi mas,
Many thanks for sharing - interesting they quote 'transfer to their international custodian', which likely suggests that they use a third party for trading in German shares? As such, transfer time etc may well be lengthy - may want to check who the third party custodian is?
Doesn't mention anything about the 14th May though and that you have to sell by then, or is that a separate note?
"Before the cancellation on the lse , we will convert your Tui Depositary interests to the underlying Ordinary Shares and transfer them to our international custodian. This will allow you to continue trading in your Tui shares on the Frankfurt exchange. We expect the transfer to take several days. The Tui shares will continue to be eligible to be held in an Isa or Sipp following the transfer to Frankfurt."
Hi mas,
Many thanks for coming back - if I'm honest, I think many on here are simply 'very interested' in Halifax's stance and especially as it seems so far away from what we've already been told by Tui and their prospectus.
As SK suggests, it may simply be that their systems are less advanced than others and they need some time to get things sorted.
Would you mind checking out more with Halifax and letting us know - if not, totally understand, but if you or beatrootjuice are up for contacting Halifax; sharing the prospectus maybe and letting us know their thinking, would be great.
Equally of course, Tui could come out with an announcement tomorrow - would just be my luck eh ref timing etc and say exactly what Halifax has said - hence our curiosity
Best
My assumption from their wording is that there will be no fees involved in the transfer for us. Certainly no mention. Basically says --- do nothing by 15th May and our shares will be automatically transferred over. But as you say better to clarify
Mas/Mike... what's also unclear is if Halifax goes early and sells its clients holdings on LSE, to move them over to Frankfurt, perhaps simultaneously allowing its clients to commence trading on the Frankfurt exchange, then what impact will that have on the SP for the remainder held on LSE? With trading set to continue on LSE could there be a price adjustment? Or will the qty of shares being taken out of circulation on LSE mean there's no SP adjustment (as simultaneously there would also be fewer shares in circulation too?)... Lots needs clarifying here imo and I agree with you there mike, It may be well worth putting in a call to Halifax. I'd be working on basis there's something in this for Halifax, charges to move clients holdings/exchange fees/trading fees for those who get concerned and just sell up?.. It's all quite odd! HL should be easy as they already permit trading on the key global stock exchanges and more.
Hi mas & beatrootjuice,
Many thanks for the clarity, although like SK, it seems 'really strange' and certainly not in line with what Tui is saying about trading through to and including the 21st June 2024.
Like SK, I'm with HL and I'm certainly expecting HL, like most others if not all other brokers to wait until Tui comms to us all about the relevant next steps and very likely on the 15th May 2024, alongside the Half Year results.
Additionally and as shared previously, if you do indeed sell or transfer WHO will pay the charges for Halifax? Really does sound 'peculiar' and if I was with the Halifax, I'd drop them a line directly to the trading team; send over the copy of the prospectus as I shared yesterday and ask for more information and again clarify on costs.
GLA
I suppose it depends how you look at it. It probably means us Halifax customers will be able to trade on Frankfurt sooner than we anticipated.
I find the Halifax approach a tad strange... Glad I'm not with them tbh! HL here.
Halifax will start trading Tui on Frankfurt on 16th May and when their transfer process is complete we will be able to trade on there. All the info i have given is what Halifax have stated on their corporate action notification to me.
Yes , Halifax will stop trading Tui on Lse at close of business on 15th May
Mas... so anyone wishing to sell after May 15th gets blocked from doing so on the Halifax platforms?
SK -- Halifax are simply saying that if you don't want your shares automatically transferred to Frankfurt then you must sell by 15th May simply in order for the transferring process to be as quick as possible to enable trading on Frankfurt to be as quick as possible.
Most notable & hopefully has follow thru for TUI - "Fuel CASK (cost per ASK), including the cost of carbon and fuel hedging, is expected to be 23-24 per cent lower vs. last year".
https://www.ii.co.uk/news/f24-post-close-trading-statement-rnsLSE20240425070009_5156844
Halifax look to be washing their hands of the delisting? Almost reads (and I'm not with Halifax, I don't have copy of their words) as if they're setting the earlier date on May 15th to make it easier for themselves? They may be banking on vast majority of clients reading the info and selling up?
Hi Mike , in the corporate action notification sent to me today Halifax state that if I dont want my shares transferring to Frankfurt then I must sell them on Halifax Share Dealing by end of business on 15th May , the last date Tui will be traded on this platform. Maybe this is what beatrootjuice means.
Hi beatrootjuice,
Not quite sure where you're getting your dates from, but they are incorrect I'm afraid.
Please see the link below, which is the prospectus for delisting directly from Tui and simply go to page 5 towards the bottom, where they clearly state that share dealings in the UK market will finish at the end of trading on Friday, 21st June 2024.
Hope this helps
https://www.tuigroup.com/damfiles/default/tuigroup-15/en/investors/7_AGM/2024/TUI_FINAL_Circular_website.pdf-2562eea93ca1fefa435a3fe123381125.pdf
Hi mas,
Hope you're very well and yes, I am.
Today was all about the trading statement from Jet2, which seemed to be on a downer in the market - looked like they were suggesting that they'd seen 'more competitive pricing' in last two months and their package holiday to individual flights had softened by 1 ppt yr on yr. My guess ref the pricing is that either ourselves or indeed Easyjet and/or a combination of both of course are putting price pressure on Jet2 - remember that right now and in the last 12-18 months, Jet2 make MUCH more money profit wise than we do and so if they are facing pricing pressure, then of course their profitability going forwards will be under pressure too! Interestingly, they wouldn't give a projection for FY25, which again is interesting.
Why pressure from us and/or Easyjet - because WE have the power to do so as the biggest travel business in the world - remember in our full year results last year, we BLEW the competition out off the water with regards sales and delivered our BEST ever sales on record - so clearly the BOD and the business know how to drive sales and the top line eh - and Easyjet, because their package holiday business is growing well and of course, they are more at the discount side of things anyway - so all, in all, for us Tui, believe this is good news as we're squeezing a key competitor!
Ref the Half Year - just like Easyjet and their results a few days ago, we have Easter in our Q2 this year, which simply has to help our figures year on year and especially as we know, because they told us last year, that Easter 2023 was one of our best ever - so why not this Easter too?
Secondly, we knocked the competition out of the water really with our 24Q1 results and making positive EBITDA for the 1st time ever. Clearly Q2 including Winter will be negative EBITDA wise, as is the case for the rest of the market, but with a great Q1 and continuing momentum and Easter and the possibility of pricing pressure adding even more to Q2 this year, then feel strongly, that we'll have a strong Half Year.
Hope this helps - clearly just my thinking and GLA
Yes, got until 14th May to sell in UK.