Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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I am not an accounting expert , in fact it is a subject about which I have very little if any worthwhile knowledge.
I like to think however that I do have at least a modicum of common sense and I think it is reasonable to stay that there are still questions to be answered around true sale.
I do not think there will be a huge or sustained uptick on news of first IM this month , if indeed it takes place at all.
Of course there will be much celebration and popping of corks etc but then when the dust settles there will still be some questions to ask.
It is not in and of the first IM itself that will get the price moving it is how that first IM is received.
Will it be seen as a successful genuine transaction or just a lash up? ...and most importantly of all will it be deemed to be a true sale and , if so , when will we know.
If the first IM is seen to be a success, how much further business will it generate?
I am not a nay sayer, just a realist and very much hoping for a good outcome.
G L A
On Google its showing us up 11,700% in the last month.!!!!!!!! I wish........
The one thing I’m looking forward too the most is poc which should in theory lead to a silencing of the none believers - it’s getting quieter by the day as we draw closer to 1st IM poc and OO offer which imo may come together or at least will overlap and the predicted sp of OO value will be less likely as poc will be the catalyst for a rerate - don’t think we will see the boom some have predicted either more a sustainable rise that will continue as more IMs are announced - at least we will be out of the starting blocks :)
I'M going to take a guess and say that the sp will go to 0.45p 0.50p when the RNS about first IM gets released.
Release the beast so to speak. Cant wait I'M getting excited, :)))), Lvu333
You bunch of porkie clowns why you worry about Im? Not so long ago you wrote that It will never happen?
No way Lex and The analyser, why so negative, surely its got to be good news if they are making progress and going to be getting more clients on board and making a fortune,:))), Lvu333
Strangemartian
I don’t know the inner workings but I can read the IFRS 15 standard and make the valid observation that the public explanations given by SYME on the business model fail the requirements to be able to book revenue under consignment sales requirements namely that the SYME customers keep on selling the consignment stock to usual customers.
In any case, the FRC the U.K. accounting and auditing regulator don’t consider the true sale and no debt claim is valid and they have seen the IFRS accounting advice and had dialogue with SYME and weren’t persuaded. The FRC also made SYME publish their view.
You keep believing SYME, it worked out so far hasn’t it?
Castle, and there you go. Knocking the company.
Just stop speculating it makes you sound stupid.
You have no idea about the imminent IM.
Where do you think the sp can shoot up too when the 1st IM gets released. There will obviously be more detail about in the RNS and who knows where the sp can go too. GLA ATB. Lvu333
So you know the inner workings and the conversations that have obviously been done.
You obviously know more than some big hitting financial experts who work for syme.
I'm sure they would appreciate an email to let them know where they are going wrong.
Getting over the legal repurchase obligation and achieving true sale is not that difficult as the SYME client will typically have an economic compulsion to repurchase the stock as opposed to a legal obligation due to cash retention from clients and also discount to normal purchase price. Economic compulsion is ignored when assessing accounting implications.
The issue I see to True Sale is getting over the line concerns challenge of non delivery of stock and navigating the specific rules that apply to consignment stock and in particular requirement that consignment stock should be held for stock companies benefit only and not be available for sale to other client customers. This is completely at odds with SYME proposed operating methodology. SYME stock companies only take delivery if SYME’s clients go bust otherwise they never take the goods.
IFRS rules govern accounting in over 140 countries not local laws and US GAAP is very similar.
SYME’s model is a non starter in my view.
I note that SYME weren’t able to persuade the FRC that their solution worked even on a theoretical basis - surely if solution was possible they would have drafted the appropriate contractual terms after all this time which they could show the FRC?
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/15/31-billion-in-trade-is-rail-landlocked-or-stuck-off-us-coasts.html
nepalm....you and the other disruptors are over heating, you need to find some shade and a wet knotted handkerchief.... none of what you assert matters for these reasons;- 1) no lth's listen to those who are always negative, 2) speaking for myself, being of mature years, if i want to invest in a company i believe, after my own research, is worthy of my investment, then that's where i put my money. Nobody else and their views matters as it is my money to lose, 3) none of us knows yet whether the FRC will agree or not in the poc, 4) if they don't, they don't, that is the way the cookie crumbles, 5) stop trying to scare newbies. Come to Scotland, we have our wood stove roaring away as its nice and chilly here.
If that’s what you think will happen put it out there - my bet is there’s no OO yet because they might want to release both bits of news in one RNS it does not matter if the IM confirmation comes through at the same time as OO It could possibly work in symes favour uptake of OO and with poc and revenue generated less likely a retrace back to what some have predicted :)
I think SYME has bags of potential!
Potential to be a moderate success, maybe even a rip roaring success and it certainly has the potential to go tits up in a big way!
As you rightly say Peak , no one knows the outcome , lots of opinions but no one really knows.
Still , what is life without a punt?
Where's the fun in that!?
You gotta live a little innit!?
Come On SYME!
G L A
Napalm - I respect your honesty :) and there’s no laws against trading - that’s how you earn your living - it does mean you probably look at syme from a trading point of view and not from a LTH perspective - as previously stated syme was my 1st ever investment and every day is a learning day - as you rightly point o dyor read the RNSs news articles points of view on here and TG
I have and continue to do all the aforementioned on balance I still believe I have picked a winner and no one knows the outcome - I’ve said many of times it’s a 3 year hold from 1st IM for me - a lot can happen in 3 yrs let’s See where it takes me - I will enjoy the learning warts and all :)
Peakhope
One last message about my agenda...two reasons.
One.
I'm trading SYME, I've said it numerous times before, the pattern I see, SYME has somehow, and I don't know how, managed to get a lot of investors hanging on every word it says, believing everything it says, and getting excited over events which can't happen. Also whilst lending to unscrupulous lenders who play volume. This makes it a ridiculous easy trading share. I basically live the buy on rumour sell on news with SYME, and i've even in past announced trades weeks/months before I've placed them. It's been a license to print money so far. Am I wrong for doing that? The only reason I do is because AZ has made it so easy too. If you could turn the clock back, would you trade like I have?
Two.
If you walked past someone in the street, who was getting excited about a Nigerian prince sending them money, if they deposited a small sum in an overseas bank account, would you maybe tell them to check the info first, or get real confirmation from a source outside of the princes circle that the transaction was real.
Am I always correct in my beliefs and trades, absolutely not, but I'm always willing to listen and learn, and above all, carry out independent research and dig in the all the relevant places.
Anyhow, believe me or don't, not really my concern. Go back over my posts and if I've got something wrong in the past, feel free to highlight it. I might not say what you like or want to hear, but like I've said plenty of times, use what I say to get the correct responses from the company, the BOD should appease any queries you have from what I raise, that's their job.
Don't ever believe you owe the BOD anything!
To be fair Rosie has not been disrespectful as she used to be and I welcome the new Rosie if she can maintain it and remain civil and respectful of others views and opinions - likewise without contributions from Napalm and the Analyzer there would be no discussion - it’s not good to be stuck in an echo chamber and I don’t mind hearing the negatives so long as they are balanced and the posters have no agenda - that said I would still welcome their posts if they were honest about having an agenda or a reason to spend so much time on a penny share they have no investment in :)
Bugger, spoke too soon
There are indeed Hallowed - good point :)
There are so many supply-chain finance (SCF) initiates that vary according to local jurisdictions but already include a 'true sale' element and so whilst they relate to receivables and payables financing, I would be surprised if inventory financing can not be structured similarly.
It's all about the legal contractual arrangements in place between the supplier, funder and buyer and to what extent each party is involved.
Due to the evolving nature of this new digital world, I believe the accounting treatment of IM will be solved by the Big 4 to accommodate the new SCF initiatives being developed.
Sadly, Napalms' views, as I have scanned through, are pretty much spot on.
We can tie up the stock with a legal framework to legally relinquish control, which is the MOST important point in the true sale debate, but I am expecting, given the super positive nature of the Board of Directors at SYME, there to be an innovative method to prove that Control has been truely relinquished.
The proof is in the pudding and as we have debated before, we need to see the first IM across the line, Accounts for the client company to be prepared, reported and signed off by Auditors AND given a rubber stamp by the FRC. This being said, the FRC do not have ultimate jurisdiction with regards Accounting Standards across the globe, however they govern a large majority.
For me I would be thinking that the IoT bolt on might have something, for example as soon as the stock is moved, touched, scanned etc, control is reattained they client company must pay for it. It could be that there is a separate section of the client company's warehouse where SYME stock is stored in exchange for a peppercorn rent.
I would personally like to know what legal rights to stock, sold to SYME's SPVs, held at the client company warehouses would any liquidators have? In the event of a Client company going under. This would be a good test.
Good to see this board returning to "normality" - good debate on both sides. It's amazing what a difference not having Rosie & Castle around makes, much it more civil.
AHH Burnley, you get me back talking about my beloved.
I've only heard good about him, including attitude and ability ceiling. Exactly what we need for now and future, and the whole club business plan ethos. We supposedly nearly had him in the Mick McCarthy days due to the Irish connection. Looking forward to seeing him play, a season ticket holder but live too far away, so only get to about 5 games a year.
Disappointed to see you guys down, I admit I hated dycheball but you were a good honest team, albeit with ten at the back and wood heading rocks up front. However, tactics worked against us. Looking forward to a new Burnley under Kompany, if you keep Dwight you'll storm the league. Would have preferred Leeds down to you, but we'll have to put with their fans for another year I think.
Anyhow, quick, I raise the point multiple times for a reason, to highlight the material issue so you/the group's can ask the relevant questions so best case you are comfortable with your holding, or two (worst case), if you are being led up a garden path, wouldn't it be nice to know you'd nailed some tacs into some people's coffins! Get confirmation of everything in this game, the BOD are essentially your employees, get the answers you require.
Anyhow, enough talking shop, let's not repeat the Burnley castle debacle that dominated this board for too long.
Good luck for the season.
Napalm, my point was you have highlighted the same points on many occasions. Incidentally, I recall you stating you are a Wolves supporter, if true you have just purchased a player in Nathan Collins that over the next will become one of the world’s best defenders. Good luck.