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Mafuta. You are on the money as usual. Its not an antiviral. But has some marginal benefits over existing treatments which arent good. The big money is other indications. But accelerating the cashflow and npv c19 not a minor play.
Mafuta I was not aware of the research carried out on 1801 concerning any antiviral properties but if it does have such properties alluded to by Thoth carried out by the Chinese then that’s a great boon for us. But totally agree that it will be useful in any indication where a cytokine storm occurs. Hopefully Q4 will bring some news from Sar concerning these developments.
I don't want to bang on about this but 1801 is not being developed as an anti viral nor as a covid only therapeutic ... It is scurrilous to suggest it is ... And I think there is some degree of smoke screening going on by a certain poster ... If 1801 has marginal anti viral properties all well and good ... Like aspirin was found not only good a a pain killer but an antiplatelet drug used for heart patients ... But the main thrust of 1801 is elsewhere and that is where the big value is ... It's not helpful comparing it with antivirals and we are not in competition with those developing them ... More likely complimenting possible treatment options .. I'll get off my soap box now as I'm getting wobbly ... Mafuta
Thank you Thoth for taking the time out to provide us with your research and insight which insofar and I am sure in the not too distant future will continue to be invaluable. If it's not too much to ask can you dig out the Chinese army tyk2 antiviral experiments prior to covid which you previously mentioned.
the boring stuff. early mouse models suggested Tyk2 inhibition would promote viruses. But not borne out in hoomans (as is often the case). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27615517/
More detailed analysis of the different type of interferon responses, suggests that Tyk2 inhibition is far superior to baricitinib (being used in c19 currently), as it DOES NOT interfere with the the antiviral response with the pan jaks do.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abd5318
worth a read. Basically depeneding on the stage of the disease and how ill you are. You will need. antivirals, IL-6 inhibitors, antiinflammatories, at different stages of the disease.
https://theconversation.com/new-treatments-for-covid-19-may-stave-off-the-worst-effects-of-the-virus-166540just an
curiously our compund shouldnt act as an antiviral, rather just as an anti inflmmatory combatting the cytokine storm. and early research on tyk2s had a side effect of increased viral loads on HCV. But Ill have a rummage in the depths of my addled brain I think we have a curious antiviral effect that was unexpected to me. it will take me a few days to find it. But its not our focus. anyway have a read of the article. the several treatments needed at different stages, and hopefully we will be part of the mix
Spot on, Mafuta. This is why the company need to be very careful how we progress 1801. We don't want it tied up and limited to Covid when a Cytokine Storm can happen as a result of many other illnesses from bacterial infections to allergic reactions. It the secret patent address this specific indication. It will be worth big money whether it is used for Covid or not.
Mafuta , read RNS 19th August - Viral loads do not increase after 1801 - therefore it can be concluded it " does moderate "
ndr50 ... my very point is 1801 is not Virus specific (Covid or otherwise) and when proven can be used for any indication causing a cytokine storm .... we have to get away from this one track thought that it's all about Covid ... Covid is and always has been a side play ... there are bigger issues out there
If there is an effective antiviral treatment for those that develop Covid and it mitigates the effect of the virus then people taking these drugs probably will not go on to develop a cytokine storm. Big pharma will be analysing how effective these treatments are before committing to 1801 as there maybe very few patients in the future who develop serious symptoms after taking their antiviral pill. If proven effective these drugs will treat the source of the symptoms rather than the subsequent symptoms themselves.
WIP spot on ... Some are getting their science all in a twist ... The pharmaceutical companies are going down the route of antiviral drugs at the moment ... 1801 has nothing to do with viruses and is of no use at moderating or reducing viral load ... 1801 will work by moderating the cytokine storm so it is virus independent ... That's why it is so valuable ... once it is proven and tested in trials .. patience will pay in the long run.
Afternoon all
Read this yesterday regarding Pfizer and an anti-viral, as said though with my very very very limited knowledge on all things medicinal, this looks more like a preventative than to treat serious cytokine storms as our 1801 (and potentially the secret patent) will.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/09/27/pfizer-tests-pill-that-could-prevent-covid-infection/?sh=3636db5539fc
I believe Thoth mentioned the Chinese Army were investigating Tyk2 in antivirals prior to the covid outbreak. He may have a link to it which if he has the time may well furnish us with it.
I think Stoney, Brighty, Potnak and Aberystwyth are all correct albeit that they are coming at it from different angles. John Reader is certainly quoted in the UKRI RNS dated December 3rd talking about SDC1801's anti viral potency. "Alongside vaccines, there is a pressing need for new therapies to treat severe respiratory inflammation arising from viral infections such as Covid-19 and compelling scientific evidence to show that TYK2/JAK1 signalling may play an important role in the inflammatory cascade that leads to the cytokine storm observed in some patients". It looks as though the FT has got wind of some news that could start to emerge soon. Whether it is to do with Sareum is anyone's guess but John Reader's quote is certainly interesting.
Hi All
I would tend to agree with Potnak regarding our SDC-1801, however in comms from SAR in late 2020 I’m sure JR referred to the antiviral relationship.
Scientists and researchers have now been working on understanding covid for the last 18 mths and knowledge is gaining all the time. The most common laboratory findings in COVID-19 are elevated D-dimer, elevated prothrombin time, elevated C-reactive protein, neutrophilia, lymphopenia, hypocalcemia, and hyperferritinemia, essentially matching a profile of coagulopathy and immune system hyperactivation/immune cell exhaustion.
In severe cases, this leads to sepsis, blood clots, and multiple organ failure, including hypoxic and inflammatory damage to various vital organs, such as the brain, heart, liver, pancreas, kidneys, and intestines.
That said, in patients who have critical COVID-19-induced sepsis, hypoxia, coagulopathy, and ARDS, the most common treatments (current standard of care) are intubation, injected corticosteroids (dexamethasone), and blood thinners. This however is not considered the correct treatment for COVID-19 and alternatives are being trialled. In severe hypoxia, cellular metabolic shifts cause hypoxanthine, which, upon the reintroduction of oxygen, causes xanthine oxidase to produce tons of highly damaging radicals that attack tissue. This is called ischemia-reperfusion injury, and it’s why the majority of people who go on a ventilator are dying. In the mitochondria, succinate buildup due to sepsis does the same exact thing; when oxygen is reintroduced, it makes superoxide radicals.
The end-stage of COVID-19 is severe lipid peroxidation, where fats in the body start to “rust” due to damage by oxidative stress. This drives autoimmunity. Oxidized lipids appear as foreign objects to the immune system, which recognizes and forms antibodies against OSEs, or oxidation-specific epitopes. Also, oxidized lipids feed directly into pattern recognition receptors, triggering even more inflammation and summoning even more cells of the innate immune system that release even more destructive enzymes (aka cytokine storm). This is similar to the pathophysiology of Lupus and this has been previously linked to our SDC-1801 by SRI, indeed these experiments by SRI led to the selection of SDC-1801 (formerly SAR-20351).
From the above, it is clear, how and where in the process our SDC-1801 could be used as an intervention for diagnosed and severely effected covid patients.
We will be in the mix somewhere but timing and next steps is still not clear.
GLA
Morning Potnak ... a very good summary which makes perfect sense
Someone on this BB put a link out yesterday showing 3 antivirals in final stages from Merck, Pfizer and Roche so alot expected in the treatment area over the coming months
1801 is definitely not in that category of antiviral. You wouldn't take 1801 on a positive test, it would stop the immune system working to create antibodies. There is a sweet spot for 1801 and its, around the same point as Dexamethasone where the immune system has kicked in but has started to over react. I guess there will be trigger point, low blood oxygen, difficulty breathing etc.. Also 1801 hasn't even started P1 yet, we haven't even done the CTA! If 1801 is good for Covid, our time will come, it just isn't that time yet, IMO.
I'm generalising Mafuta but in its totality the FT article is highlighting that things are progressing from the vaccine to other areas of expertise and it looks as though we are going to hear more encouraging news about non vaccine treatments for Covid shortly from UK scientists. I'm starting to think that Agile will indeed be part of this newsflow. If so, Sareum could be part of this next phase. Good luck, Brighty
Brlghty I didn't think 1801 was an anti viral?
Some very interesting comments potentially for Sareum shareholders in the FT from Steve Bates, chief executive of the UK’s BioIndustry Association and a former member of Britain’s vaccines task force.
The FT article says that Bates would be “unsurprised” to see at least one antiviral drug ready to be rolled out in the coming weeks, potentially under an “emergency use authorisation”, through which products yet to win full regulatory approval can be made available during a public health crisis.
Could this be SDC1801 via Agile? If so, we are on our way to Thoth2's £1 a share.
The rest of the FT article, summarised below, also said that “People may have to adjust their expectations of how transformative this category of medicines will be”..
Efficacy levels might be far lower than the public had come to expect from the vaccines, Bates warned. “Because of this problem of when you administer them, it’s almost impossible to get a really good result statistically. And if you get an antiviral that works at 40 per cent, I think that will be brilliant,” he said.
In April Boris Johnson, UK prime minister, established an antivirals task force, modelled on the country’s successful vaccines task force.
He pledged “to have at least two effective treatments this year, either in a tablet or capsule form” that could be taken at home following a positive test or exposure to someone with the virus. But as yet there has been no word from the task force and its leader, pharmaceutical industry veteran Eddie Gray, on whether that target will be met.
The UK health department said there were “a number of exciting opportunities in the pipeline” and promised to provide “further details in due course”.
Good luck, Brighty