Petro Matad CEO Mike Buck confirmed that he believes the Exploitation Licence for Block XX in Eastern Mongolia is likely to be awarded in Q2. Watch the full video here.
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A little more tech' detail. 19 tonne truck with 248 mile (400km) range and stores the gas in 7 x 35kg cylinders underneath. Apparently Switzerland has one of the highest proportions of hydropower stations on Earth so unit cost and efficiency isn't as much of an issue..
One click on from James May's H2 car manifesto. He is right in that H2 for cars is not really viable until A: The green H2 network is set up and B: The cost of filling an H2 car falls from the current £80. ITM transport division will surely bug Shell and government to at least create a refill grid network for truck stops in the coming years.
In other news it looks like the Hyundai trucks already exist and the first 10 units may have already been sent to Switzerland late last year.
Unfortunately hydrogen is late to the ‘alternative car fuel’ party. Infrastructure is everything. It’s definitely the VHS/Betamax thing. However if they can crack the green hydrogen at competitive costs then people especially politicians won’t be able to ignore it
Just a quick question a kiloton is a unit of explosive energy. Do you mean a "kilo tonne" which is not an SI unit.
Do you mean 170,000 tonnes and over what period?
It looks like Hyundai will sign contracts with anyone. Ineos are buying their fuel cells for their Landrover remake and Hyundai will buy their hydrogen for their cars. I just checked the Hyundai site and recommed I don't buy a hydrogen driven car as "your house is not within 15 miles of a H2 fuel station.
Talk about a clear message there.
In my life I tried to buy a Fiat once and the salesman told me "you don't want to buy a Fiat" so I never have. I tried to buy a Honda but the salesman told me "we have to send to HQ to get you a price" 15 years later I'm still waiting. Now Hyundai have confirmed "don't buy a Hyundai".
Hard to believe.
Hi tension lines use Aluminium and Steel. Have they assumed stuff like having a centralised grid or distributed grid. Opportunities to use almunium https://www.wilsonpowersolutions.co.uk/copper-vs-aluminium/ and of course there is always silver for contacts. It seems one way to get the aluminium motor to be nearer the size of the copper motor is ot pre-stree the aluminium windings so they "fill in better". Then of course moving telecoms from copper to fibre optics must release copper stocks.
All in all it looks like we will have to start different materials differently. Was always such....
Yes the supply problem with copper is the nearly the same for both new technologies but the copper development agency has reported the charging supply needs 1,700 kilotons by 2025 , that's a huge volume
Copper supply hits H2 and battery power cars
I’d also like to know how close a relationship ITM has with Hyundai. It’s clear Hyundai are keen to crack the hydrogen powered car and ITM would be very well advised to get very close to them. I know they have been working together since 2016 (or sooner) but haven’t heard much recently
JCB will no doubt have a vested interest in using Hyrogren to power future generation equipment. I’m sure they own 8% of ITM for a reason
It's the copper supply that will dictate whether EV cars become the norm.
The copper price is already rising rapidly on supply issues.
To change to all EV vehicles would to take 2 large mines to come on stream every year to at least 2030 or 2035. This would be of 500,000 ton size, only one of this size has come on stream in the last 3 years globally.
The copper alliance web site seems blind to this shortage quoting recycled copper and undersea sources, I can't see either of those covering shortages and undersea is too problematic.
There's around 183lb in an EV car up from 20-45lb in a petrol car.
The copper price has risen from $3.60lb to $4.30lb in a week
Changing China's cars to EV would swallow the supply
The CEO comes from a centralised electricity background, where flim-flam is not a key skill.
I take Bilbo's point regarding the slow take-up of fuel cell cars - this doesn't seem to be the main target market for H2 for now anyway. It will be interesting to see if this changes when more refuelling sites open in Europe , USA and Japan. The UK lags sadly behind, which must be frustrating for companies like ITM. The CEO has said in the past that he sees heavy industry and power-to-gas as the principal markets for H2 deployment and we'll see if he's right. Meanwhile I haven't yet seen any sign of battery technology scaling up to a level that would break through into the heavy transport or aviation sectors, which are key to decarbonisation in the foreseeable future.
I googled Hyundai fuel cells and found this.
and clicked from there onto this..
So if all is to believed Hyundai have signed several memo's of understanding. The swiss venture even has Linde on board as a signatory. I hope it amounts to some thing because it should. Long distance decarbonised transport is the linchpin to solving so many Climate and habitat revival problems.
I recognise the seemingly endless chicken and egg situation of no transport product to refuel but the good thing in H2 is that it's so gregarious in it's uses. Transport might take a few years longer than say the grid, steel and cement production because of prototype development, but those former industries use terawatts of energy every year and pump out millions of tons of CO2 so that'll do in terms of both revenues and saving the planet.
I hope you are right.
My concern is all about chickens and eggs that I have been watching for more than 10 years now. The low cost strategists (the chinese) are going battery for cars. The value added strategists (Musk) are going battery for cars. Therefore I see the truck as the logical route into hydrogen. If you look at the actual investments they continue to be pitiful outside Japan. So I see H2 for road transport as stalled.
The people who need to get together to push this are H2 producers and H2 car makers and the reality is that they are silent in the desert. Even JCB have a product but is not getting up and doing a Musk.
So no marketing, no noise leads to no demand. Some might say where is the government? I'd say where are the business leaders making their case to the public to buy great cars and trucks. Yep no where.
So while VHS and Betamax actually battled each other. Here the H2 guys are not even in the field. Useless
It means we are left with H2 trains, blue H2 converting to green H2, and one day steel and cement going Carbon to H2.
I have to admit I don't believe in subtle, I believe in customers who say "I want one of those" and no one is saying that about H2 cars or trucks. Years of being a Fellow of the Institute of Sales and Marketing Management (sound posh and isn't) has taught me that you either satisfy a need or you create the need and then satisfy it. Does anyone here really see a car or truck need being stimulated?
Lfclfc5 posted an excellent podcast regarding the future of ITM and green H2.
If the competing Blue H2 commentator advocate is anything to go by, the dull as dishwater Dr Cooley won the intellectual argument hands down. Especially by highlighting the forever infrastructure and storage costs/ management for the captured CO2 that is created by the Blue process.
Other exciting mentions were 150Bn (Euros) as part of the Green Recovery Deal devoted only to H2. You'll have to listen for yourselves but the future was argued well and painted bright.
As for HGV's H2 lorries are best simply because of the short recharging times and weight saving gaseous option. Where are Hyundai in all of this, they've had an open source power train online for nearly a decade..? I recall the technical difficulties maintaining consistent volts/ Amps to the motors being an issue in the early days but I thought this was ironed out.
Bilbs, whilst the VHS Betamax analogy is seductive, it was a war won broadly on content available. The war between pure battery and FC battery combo is more subtle. Fuel cells will always be required in other markets, unlike Betamax, I believe they will start their market penetration in a similar way that the Japanese swamped the motorbike market. They started at the unloved moped 50cc end and gradually moved up the value chain. I think fuel cells will do the opposite and start at the high value end, gradually moving down as the costs reduce and refuelling stations increase. Just gut feel from observations of current trends and living through the VHS/Betamax and motorbike marketing wars.
Nikola investigation suggests the CEO lied, Musk hates H2. It ain't an easy win with our dull CEO.
Bilbs, I do wonder if there's another twist to the story yet to unfold. One of the reasons that Tesla haven't made their Semi yet is they don't have enough battery capacity in their supply chain.
Now it may be that's a simple matter of more mining or more production and can therefore be resolved. But what if it can't? As batteries are the layperson's solution to everything, maybe there will be a shortage for the foreseeable future. In which case fuel cell may become the go-to solution.
It may be less efficient, but if you can actually manufacture fuel cell whilst batteries are in short supply then who knows? Battery supply issues aren't my specialist subject so I have no idea whether we're simply waiting for the cork to be released from the bottle, but EVs have been in production for long enough now I'd have thought that battery supply should have been part of the solution already.
I think we are going to have to admit that sales in 2021 are going to be based on moving blue hydrogen to green hydrogen. Even if Boris's plan comes up trumps those orders will not hit us until 2022. Shell is buying and Linde may be converting but this H2 for cars is going down the Betamax route.
upward forces equal downward forces.
Without the RNS I suspect we’d be South of £4.50 so I will take the positive from that. Once the Tesla et al tech rout stops the bounce ‘should’ come and be fairly sizeable. If nothing else today’s RNS is a major validation step.
it is frustrating though on this news in a more positive market the SP would have gone a lot higher
Agreed. My son tells me to stop looking on a daily basis but look once week. He is right but its less fun !
right analysis lol
but the market getting hammered didnt help