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The only one? OK. Explains why some many are invested in an airline that has such a reliance on expensive seats then. If it is as you insist, hardly no business class then IAG would see in it's forward market research that there is no point in carrying on and call it a day. But is doesn't. And as for all this cloud business and other rosy tinted new world visions, seen it so many times before. They always end up more a problem than they appear to solve. And to all those happy to run their company and store their data on a remote server vulnerable to theft, hacking, breakdown and once the reliance is established massive price inflation, good luck. That must explain why so many smaller companies are moving their IT operations in house including their own web hosting. Yup, all hail the cloud [personal data sale begins next week].
The only idiot on this site is you Blue. Speedbird is correct and you are the only one who keeps telling everyone that business class travel will return with a bang. I am in the aviation business and I deal with the major players producing aircraft. I categorically state that the business travel enjoyed by their employees will be cut right to the bone. Companies have functioned perfectly well during the travel ban and only when a needs must face to face contact is required will trips be made.
Is it possible Blue can we have a little less quantity and more quality.
BIG BLU bud and dont go mad lol , Overt he past 2 years there has been as significant t shift in moving all it operations to the cloud , have you herd of it lol . Many companies use this system now and will be the future i.e Azure for one . Even aircraft use this system as it is maintenance free (back end ) you pay for what you use . this is a big fundamental change in the way big companies work since the mobile phone and i know most airlines now are using this instead of buying expensive hardware and expensive maintenance . like garlic bread with cheese its the future and no rola cola
Of course Ghia, events lead to adaption. In some cases the forced adaption can work, in most others it doesn't and we muddle through until we can return to normal. I would imagine in your situation there has had to be a transfer of liability though. There is frequently regression to former working practices after the introduction of new methodologies and technologies. The seats on the planes you may not need in the future will be taken by others who have discovered the exact opposite to your business and will now ensure they have their people in place permanently. There will be some swings and roundabouts but the extent that some expect of this brave new world based on a few news stories on the 10 o'clock news trying to tell us all the whole world has changed has never settled in the past. You will still be going on site, otherwise you will simply loose the business and be nothing more than a widget seller. The need to retain the installation, maintenance, training and operation income I bet leads to a gradual increase in boots on the ground for you though - or at least longer visits to keep the contact alive. I've seen this many times before when engineering companies pull the on-site portakabin from the site and expect to be able to conduct business from their base with the occasional visit. They are not there to capitalise on events to get extra work, adapt to the changing schedules well and even end up incurring penalties. The number of times people have had to be put on the first flight out at any cost because there are no boots on-site doesn't bear thinking. We will see.
IMO the only one single change that has properly taken place is the establishment of the mobile phone as a non-regressive tool.
big-blue - To counter your argument. The pandemic has been really difficult for my team, we sell large engineering test equipment globally. 95% of our trade is overseas predominantly ASIA.
During lockdown we had 20million pounds worth of equipment in shipping crates at sites waiting to be installed.
We normally fly a team of 10-15 engineers out to install, commission and train. We battled to try and get permissions to fly we explored routes into countries, we contemplated paying staff to quarantine in dubai before moving onto their final destination. Eventual we gave up with the idea of flying out a team.
The pandemic forced us to get creative and we invested in building up competency locally, it was a painful journey but now those markets are self sufficient it actually costs us less to install machines. The pandemic forced us to make a painful step we won't be flying as much as we used to after the pandemic.
I'm sure this story will be similar for other companies and industries, who have had to adjust to get by.
I'm not saying people won't fly again but the picture will be a bit different IAG should do fine but some airlines may be a shell of their former self in the future.
I'm looking forward to holidaying abroad again.
.... but you are only using teams because you are forced to. When there are no more lockdowns and all the masks are thrown away, I bet the only use of teams will be to arrange what time to meet up at the airport and arrange the hotels at the other end.
As for saving millions on your flights, less use of the company jet will save millions of course, you would be better off with business class in that case. Those Lear's are a bit over expensive these days.
I should also have added, people young and old are even returning to vinyl records. I mean, after all the so called advances with CD and mp3, the judgment is - vinyl is best. Why? Because it is analogue. Analogue tube amplifiers have been back in vogue for many years now. Face to face is the analogue equivalent of conferencing. It will never superseded by technology. Post lockdown will look very much the same as pre-lockdown and the return I think will be very fast. Look what happens now when there is a minor lifting of restrictions!
you may have seen tit all before but all companies i deal with now use teams as a meeting tool and have saved millions in travel costs sorry pal but technology is over taking airlines
marab, I've seen it all before, new gadget this and that to change how everything will be in the future.
You would be gob smacked if you knew how many thoroughly modern businesses still use paper fax machines. VR will not take off in the same way headsets for phones didn't. Remember how for a brief period half the population seems to be wearing a bluetooth headset? Where are they now? VR headsets are no way a substitute for being there no matter how good they are in a virtual game world. The REAL world is a very different thing.
big blue yes i agree its a dilemma that is facing us all i hope it will recover but technology is getting as fast as those airlines bud going to very interesting in 5 yrs
Emirates have over 130 380s in their fleet, unfortunately European carriers except BA didn't have the high capacity routes, I believe BA are intending to reintroduce some 380s later in the year, Air Chance have withdrawn the type from their fleet, hopefully Lufthansa will operate the 380 again.
marab, for your job in your industry that may be the case and it maybe your company was moving that way anyway in order to keep the business afloat or line the owners pockets. But in a way you prove my point. If one of your colleagues is offered the same job elsewhere with a couple of business class seats thrown in when the inevitable client meeting must happen, will they stay with you at the arse end of the plane or be up front with their feet up? And that is why a return to full seats will happen far quicker than most are trying to imagine.
And also, the actual economic impact is very much lower than most think. Whilst big compared to previous troubled times, it has been pointed out that the credit crunch did far more damage to the world economy in the same space of time.
big blue also the future will be vr head headsets to use so you can be at the meeting virtually so why fly its the future
sundezena the average buisness class ticket is 3 times that of economy if i was a owner of a big company and need to save money its there i would look for savings , you peeps have to get real , yes there will be buisness class like you said i for one will use it on my 60th but normally economy for me as i can not justify the price
I should say though that a longer term limiting factor is on the cards and as announced by the UK government intervention on how often you maybe able to travel will be introduced. But not it is something that will require intervention to restrict people's free choice. If people were naturally migrating to online meetings then there would be no need for the introduction of travel restrictions that will be required now aviation is being lumped in with all the other green crap.
But left turners need not worry, may have to plant a few more trees but if you have money, you will be able to travel how you wish.
big blue vid conferencing and working from home is here to stay pal i been working from home and productivity has gone up , there is need to meet clients but not like before business travel will slow down , people just wont be able to afford it and use economy there's a lot of companies that just wont allow you to travel business class its a fact and if you can do business over the net then why would you need to use business class
marab, living in the past? Well this covid travel restriction has only been around for a year or so. There was little appetite for video conferencing before and it had been tried many times. The most important example being the numerous climate change related conferences. Many times video conferencing was proposed but never came about because of the nature and need for face to face as humans. If ever there was to be a move to video conferencing it would have already happened there. The covid situation has forced video conferencing, but in reality how many main events such as expos actually ended up being staged online? Why didn't the entertainment festivals simply go online? Many people have found the video conferencing to be very limited and certainly not the place to assess the behaviour and intent of others involved.
A return to pre-covid assembly will happen quickly, only limited to the extent lockdowns are lifted. The social isolation might lead to more face to face as the lack of contact has been commented on repeatedly as a negative in workplace and social interaction.
Mararab, people that fly in Business class are also people who are retired and have extra dosh to spend, holidaymakers who have plenty of money to spend and treat their family and some business people. People in First are the millionaires who want the extra privacy and they will not fly Business. Business class seats are not as expensive as people think. It depends on the routes. All IMO
Most of the arab airlines have switched to dreamliners more cheaper to run and maintain a380 is a dead shire horse
How are BA going to fill every seat on the six A380’s which no longer appear to be in the maintenance programme?
Relying on any sort of renaissance in the aviation industry based on holiday travel is delusional. Far too much competition in that segment. Businessmen have changed their pattern of conducting their trade. Are all those nights out of bed and suffering jet lag really necessary, just to get a wet signature. on a document? You can’t even shake hands on a deal now.
Transiting through airports is an even worse experience than it was before Covid. Many people will avoid flying at all costs
big blue the issue is yes face to face contact but you dont need many . Many issues can be resolved over the net you are living in the past mate
Business class and all the bells and whistles are status symbols. In the same way that two window offices become more important than the salary [because the bonus is worth 100 times more anyway], limo cars to airports, travel upgrades and apartment hotel suites will be on the self-important list of the executives and aspirational list of the pen pushers as it has always been. And every leg up the ladder the pen pushers get, the executives add more rungs on the luxury and convenience ladder to keep that socially superior distance. It has always been like it, it will always been like it. The covid pandemic will not alter that at all. In fact the opposite may happen as many lobby that they deserve better travel grades because of their contribution. Even if there is more video conferencing built into the business landscape, what is the purpose for it? Simply to prepare the ground for a face to face, which has been the story from the 80's onwards and before that it was telephone conferencing to sett up the face to face. At every level, business, sport, entertainment, leisure, diplomatic, political, climate change junkets - the lot, face to face will always dominate and those travelling will always be looking to improve the travel experience. Think it through, even Ryanair passengers have upgrade options!!!! You seriously think BA and the rest are going to back peddle on upgrade options? I stand firm, you do not have any understanding of the market.
@Speedbird
I don't think business travel is gone completely but there will definitely be a shift to more premium leisure travel. It was interesting to see another 777 be reconfigured where they got rid of First and increased their world traveller plus seating capacity. I think there will always be people that will fly business, but I think your right not as many as pre pandemic, we will see. At least 6 A380s will be coming back into service and these have had their maintenance schedules kept up to date. GL All, hopefully see a good bounce back towards 220 level. Onwards and upwards!!
I predict speedbird, every seat in the airlines can get in the air will be full including all left turn seats! The big question is what kind of market research data will airlines use to determine what services it will open up. The return leg testing issue will severely reduce expected market size. For the business class it is more the issue of time at the airport, but I will expect the VIP service to be significantly expanded to 'help' out fast tracking and reducing any hanging about time. That's where the two tier systems will really be, not at the theatre door.
if you say so Speedbird 747...you must be right! You are like mystic meg..mind she was never right!