The next focusIR Investor Webinar takes places on 14th May with guest speakers from WS Blue Whale Growth Fund, Taseko Mines, Kavango Resources and CQS Natural Resources fund. Please register here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
marinerman,
I can see some of the logic re what you say. I often do a small dummy trade (free if you reject offer) on HL to ascertain the true spread not to necessarily buy or sell at that moment but to see the true (arguably) position rather than the spread reported on London Stock Exchange and subsequently by other brokers.
I've seen this come up a few times and as someone who has used Freetrade and Trading212 I'm almost certain it's retail investors buying and selling these small amounts. Freetrade is pretty poor at displaying actual prices up to date, so I often used to buy and sell small amounts to see the actual bid/ask spread. Trading212 is a bit better, but with zero commission it effectively removes any barrier to dipping in and out at will. I think this shares inclusion on Freetrade coincided somewhat with the appearance of these trades.
Yes, there could be an algo bot working those small trades but I cannot work out why. The idea that a small trader would sit at their desk buying or selling 50 shares here and 100 shares there isn't a credible assertion. Bugger if i know
Spratt1982
Interesting point but the thing I do not get that I cannot remember seeing anyone on this board saying they have bought low quantities of this share at well above the ask. (I may be wrong as I cannot fully read all the posts on this board). This is unusual because ordinary traders on this board would probably admit to it and attempt to provide logical reasons.
It does strike me that all these minor trades at this morning are computer generated false trades produced for what reason we do not know and can only guess.
We do know that Aim is basically unregulated and unaccountable and we do know that if a financial system is open to abuse/fraudulant manipulation then there will definately be those exploiting it if they can for personal gain (criminally or merely that it is may not be illegal).
Unfortunately, I do not have the time left/inclination to fully delve, at my time of life, into the intricacies of what is going on with computerized millisecond transactions in relation to CFD's /shorting and all the other potential aspects/scams of the Aim market, Its brokers/Its MM's and everyone else involved in its operation and perhaps it does not matter too much.
I take pleasure from the fact that possibly in the years prior to GGP prospects being well known maybe around 30% (pure guesswork) lost money on their portfolios on Aim now GGP is a must in any portfolio maybe the percentage is the other way with 30% (pure guesswork) making very good money on their portfolios.
There may be those that feel this has cost them large amounts of previously easy money and they seek to try and take it back by manipulation or other nefarious means. Who knows?
In the ordinary scheme of things I believe its currently more important to keep ones focus on the present to try and protect the gains made and benefit from the future shorter/medium term gains to be made. Like many, although I believe the future is bright, I may have to consider at some stage long term positions in relation to age and I do not forget the Newmont saga.
Not yet a believer in this stock mirroring gold price movements so am assuming there is a underlying buyer / buyers in the mid 12 range otherwise would have expected offer price to come in a little .....just thoughts
continued sorry hit send early
-POG on its way up in the midst of global recession
-A good working relationship with NCM (who do seem to need HAV to keep Telfer going)
-GGP's strong indications of HAV being a larger resource hitting good gold in wider targets such as HAD066
Now could these "far out" drill holes from the bulk of HAV drilling be GGP lining up some ammo to say look how far out we are hitting gold at HAV, you have to assign some value this although we havent got a defintiive number?
The positive I take from it is that there are two very distinct elements that have value applied (of course assuming this VALMIN code applies to all mineral FMV esimates):
1. What we know for sure, the "Technical Value" and that is deemed by an independent expert.
and
2. A premium or discount relating to market, strategic or other considerations. Value should be selected as the most likely figure from within a range after taking account of Risk and the possible variation in ore grade, metallurgical recovery, capital and operating costs, commodity prices, exchange rates and the like.
This seems to be a bit more of a "gentleman's agreement" to determine any value to the unknowns. Now I see 3 things in our favour in this instance:
-POG
That is very interesting JDT, thanks. From what that is saying to me, its likely fair market value will be lower than any value placed on our 25% remaining as we would likely be able to take into account such factors as market or strategic considerations.
Not that I think our 25% is up for sale or anything, but if it were, I had assumed it would be valued the same as the 5%, that Valmin code if correct could suggest otherwise in my very humble blah blah blah
not for a minute Mush!:-)
It's a really good point schlemiel on how FMV is determined. I have very little experience in this field and I am sure there are some on this bb a lot more equipped to add some colour to this, but there are some loose guidelines for determining FMV under the VALMIN code:
D43 of the VALMIN Code (2005): Value is the Fair Market Value of a Mineral or Petroleum Asset or Security. It is the amount of money (or the cash equivalent of some other consideration) determined by the Expert in accordance with the provisions of the VALMIN Code for which the Mineral or Petroleum Asset or Security should change hands on the Valuation Date in an open and unrestricted market between a willing buyer and a willing seller in an “arm’s length” transaction, with each party acting knowledgeably, prudently and without compulsion. Value is usually comprised of two components, the underlying or ‘Technical Value’ of the Mineral or Petroleum Asset or Security, as defined in D36, and a premium or discount relating to market, strategic or other considerations. Value should be selected as the most likely figure from within a range after taking account of Risk and the possible variation in ore grade, metallurgical recovery, capital and operating costs, commodity prices, exchange rates and the like.
D36 of the VALMIN (2005) Code: Technical Value is an assessment of a Mineral or Petroleum Asset’s future net economic benefit at the Valuation Date under a set of assumptions deemed most appropriate by an Expert or Specialist, excluding any premium or discount to account for such factors as market or strategic considerations
....and don't think I haven't got my eye on it panama.
There is yet but time for things to move on up with the SP if pre results actions starts with FOMO before the weekend...but god dammit it better had move on up or I will owe the Mush the first drink......!
I watched GGP's intra-day share price yesterday and I (my opinion) thought I saw some correlation between it and the POG. Is the GGP share price now tracking the POG? Who knows
Another question
What data is required to determined the FMV of GGP's 5%? How can this be determined when havieron (valuable ore) itself may well continue to expand over time.
So is the FMV a point in time valuation based on all known data and how can future increases in the reserve base of Havieron be accounted for in the FMV? A royatly arrangement of some kind?
I'm not au fait with how these things work....just throwing out naive ideas
Buys and Sell lists are a GUESS based on the sp of the trade and the spread at the time
Not worth it BR Some on here have big superiority complexes.
Let's have the conversation, I called it as i saw it, someone as well as me, may learn from the education you are about to deliver.
Perhaps there is a platform putting through sells at a higher SP i.e 12.8p but the quantities are low hence makes me think this is manipulation...who knows..Expect an uptick later as things start to heat up next week.
Either way it is pretty meaningless as turnover is so slight thus far this morning.
BottleRocket. I really hope thats sarcasm. Or are we really needing to have yet another conversation about the validity of the buys/sells lists?
No one is buying, It's all Sellers thus far according to this sites Buy/Sells list
Volume seems to be down significantly on yesterday
I don't really subscribe to the manipulation theories as others do but there definitely seems to be some 'massaging' of the SP going on this morning.
The trades going through at 12.8p can't be real - the only way I can get a quote on IG this morning for that price is to quote for over 750,000 shares.
Another tree shake i aint selling so stop lol.