London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East and have access to Premium Chat. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Well it seems I was very wrong! Having read the presentation and re-read the site it seems the BlueGen is for single home deployments, quite surprising given its size. So your concerns are well founded! That said even given its size I think it's worth a high risk punt.
It's a fair point re the efficiency but there are a few key points, a stirling boiler burns the gas resulting in CO2, a fuel cell boiler does not, zero CO2. It gets even more interesting with companies like ITM who are investigating injecting Hydrgen in to the gas network. You could have completely clean, renewabally generated Hydrogen supplied direct to your fuel cell boiler. Pracically no CO2. Likewise the H could be generated locally from a turbine or solar panel on your home totally free - at this point the efficiency of the units is less of a priority.
One thing for sure burning fossil fuels is not the future, in 10 - 15 years we won't be doing it. I firmly believe fuel cells are the answer, so convinced I am that every spare penny is invested in H one way or the other. (and it's serving me well so far :p )
But the instantaneous power output is only 1.5kW isn't it? That means at peak demand it won't be enough to supply multiple users....ok maybe two users (one vacuum cleaner even with new regs can be 1600W). And that agrees with the spin in the link from Fcell where says it will deliver 13,000kWh/year (twice demand of Aussie home). If you assume average uk of 3300kWh/year that would be nearly 4 users. But that is not the whole story because to do that the device has to be on 24/7. At low demand (night) the grid doesn't need (or want) the excess power from devices like this. So it is only really giving about 6000kWh/year (or less even) at a useful time. They really need to get the price right down to get customer money back even before the 5 year life of the fuel cell is over. On top of all this the overall efficiency is only 85% so it is worse than a condensing Stirling engine boiler...
Anyway good luck with Ceres.
Oder of 100 units from Avilos 'Pending'. I thought they were already being delivered? Or is this a further 100 on top of the previous order?
An update has been released: http://www.cfcl.com.au/Assets/Files/CFCL%20Investor%20Update%2025%20August%202014.pdf
I believe CFU's product set is designed to be used on a housing scheme, shared by multiple properties, flats for example. Businesses are also a potential I imagine.
I was skeptical when I first learned about the product and opted for Ceres Power instead as their offering is a standard sized boiler.
However, since the recent plummet I've dived in. The market for such a sized product is there - businesses in particular. So I'm in Ceres and I'm in here too! Gunna average down at the new low also :)
Did you ever run through the survey questions for suitability?
It cuts the survey short at question 3 if you aren't using more than 36kWh of electricity per day. That is over 13,000kWh/year!! Ofgem figure for HIGH usage is 5,100kWh.
So if your electricity bill isn't already getting in the region of 2 grand a year, CFU are saying themselves that this is not for you....presumably because it can't pay for itself.
And BTW any domestic/residential user using 36kWh of electricity per day should be ashamed of themselves.
Heartbreaking just doesn't quite say it. I bought these ... must be 4 or 5 years ago and sold (thank christ) for a loss when the decimal point was to the right of where it sits today. Can't imagine anyone still holding these having invested in those heady days of 10p+ Lord knows what has happened here in the intervening years.
GL with your other investments Sue
Sorry, meant to say using gas (not burning), which you still need to pay for at gas rate per kWh.
But you are burning gas to use the device. It is not 100% efficient so you wouldn't run it constantly, only when you also need the heating (hot water). If you are a typical household using 3,300kWh/year, even with a saving of 10p/kWH on the electricity and the FIT and any export you will not get anywhere near £2.2k/year back as saving/profit. And isn't this device £20k to buy and install?
It is not matching domestic energy consumption so sales are limited.
Hi Sexy Sue,
As Bon Jovi says. Keep the Faith..... :)
Check this out:
As far as I can see, anyone expecting a return on these shares is living in cloud cuckoo land. I have held them for about 8 years now and am sitting on a very unhealthy 97.5% LOSS. It won't matter what happens, I shall never see anything remotely resembling my initial investment back. Fortunately, it wasn't very large - only £5k but the only reason that I haven't sold out is that it simply isn't worth it - the holding is hardly worth the dealing costs. I'm just looking forward to the day when it all goes belly up and I can actually delete it from my portfolio and stop seeing it every time I look.
In case you are not aware:
[June 2014] Integrated Fuel Cell Appliances Field Trial Deployment Nears Completion
SOFT-PACT’s Integrated Fuel Cell (S.I.F.C) Appliances have now all been fully deployed in Germany with the assistance of Lindorfer GmbH. The majority of the appliances for the UK have also been deployed with the assistance of Forrest.
I guess because RNS released this morning and shows increased net debt and cash outflow
Yet more fundraising around the corner I think......
Wonder what the sp rise would be if an order of 1000 came through? Frustrating how they give no updates on the integrated fuel cell as well. It could be a far superior product!
How come AUS was 20% up last night but we are down 7.69% - Doesn't make sence.....
The point of this technology is that you get incented by the gov to buy it. Eg a feed in tariff of about £2.2 k per year for ten years, just like the solar boom..eg you get your money (excl installation) back in about 4 years. Then you add on the savings on electricity usage. Hence its a good deal if it works as advertised and lasts for 15-20 years. Incidentally an average 3 bed house in the uk uses 3,300kWh according to theofficial gov site(dec).
Seems to me this , plus solar gets one pretty well off the grid..:)
Also if you look at the big name investors (bp etc) in this, I don't think they will want to lose their investment
Sorry, I just don't get it. From Bluegen info on website: "BlueGen operates constantly, generating power 24/7 all year-round, regardless of weather. Its typical output is 1.5 kW of electricity - that’s 36 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per day.
An average home in south-eastern Australia uses about 7,000 kWh of electricity per year. "
Does it still cost £20k? Even if it saved 15p a kWh it will take 19 years to get your money back in the above example. If it was on 24/7 (assuming you need 1.5kW constantly) it would still take 10 years to pay for itself. There is little market in UK for this because it doesn't give enough heat in winter for home heating so you still need a boiler + space for this , and in Australia isn't it cheaper to use solar?
Apologies if I got the price wrong. I can't seem to find any recent details for that.
Have I invested in a corpes ?
Last week I managed to sell 250,000 shares and then transfer the cash to my ISA to buy in there. This week when I try to sell 29,000 shares its going to a negotiiated deal so I'm not guaranteed the Share Price. I dont trust the Halifax to get me a decent price. How are others managing to sell larger amounts and getting a good price > .07p ?
Agreed it's a buy !!
The 605,263 shares showing as SOLD are actually a BUY. You would think in these days of technology they would be able to show these deals acurately....
Spark, the UK’s leading energy supplier to the rental sector, is entering a unique partnership with Ceramic Fuel Cells to deploy BlueGEN.....