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https://www.cleanegroup.org/hydrogen-hype-in-the-air/
Hydrogen burns at a higher temp than methane so in air more nitrogen and oxygen combine to produce more NOx. Above link suggests 6x NOx than methane.
The energy needed to cause an exlposion of hydrogen air mixture is much less than that needed to explode methane air mixture. Hydrogen/oxygen (air) can explode over wider range of concentrations as methane/air. So a leak (or a hob is left on but unlit) has increased risk for explosions. I imagine if this hydrogen/methane mix goes ahead they will ban gas ovens altogether and just have boilers with extra safety measures.
No-one concerned about the higher level of nitrous oxides and more risk of explosions?
99icecream. I was going by the general cost comparisons which compare p/kWh electricity and cost/litre fuel. Just saying these don't consider that most of cost of fuel is tax. Charging overnight now can have a cheaper tariff because there is low electricity demand at night at the is present time. When we all have EV's and want to charge overnight it won't be a low demand time so I expect the tariffs will change accordingly.
Dogberry101. Logical and hopefully in that way (if they have a good system for monitoring the road miles to avoid fraud/abuse) so we don't end up also paying higher tax on lighting . The point is that if the lost tax is recouped by applying to future car use, like for like related to miles travelled, the value of any fuel duty tax and VAT applied now will in some way be applied to EV use in future. BTW if using electricity from grid for central heating and hot water the cost is more than 4 x cost of piped gas per kWh.
I hear some say electricity prices will come down in future (4 x ?) but I just read a report explaining why prices are going up this year...due to increased demand during lockdown. How is it then when we are moving everything to electricity to be cleaner, with inevitable increase in demand can we expect things to be cheaper in future?
Comparing costs in UK. EV is cheaper than petrol/diesel based on Electricity at 5% VAT and fuel at 20% VAT and 57p litre fuel duty. When most cars are electric the government will need to get that tax revenue from somewhere else....possibly increased tax on electricity.
Long term view use H2 in steel manufacturing process. In an earlier comment someone said existing global demand for H2 at the moment is 70 million tonnes. To replace coal in steel making something over 100 million tonnes (additional to the 70 used for other stuff) is estimated to be needed. Majority of H2 is produced from methane at the moment. And we need the transition from methane to electrolysis from renewable. In the meantime the steel we use now demands coal. Better to make it locally than import it and have even more energy used transporting it (e.g. from China). A UK steel industry (as we used to have) provides jobs and business. Better to have that and be involved in the production transition to hydrogen than continue to rely on imports.
Demand for steel (iron and carbon) -> demand for coal. If Britain wants a steel industry to compete with the world it needs local supply of coal. If you buy a new car you demand coal.
toneman. Absolutely. And most of the H2 at the moment is produced from methane/steam and a large proportion of that (40%?) is used to produce ammonia (for fertilizer)….CO2 emissions from the existing process. I have no idea on the relative running costs (electrolysis versus methane/steam).
Energy calcs. Is that assuming about 40kWh per kg hydrogen? If so, yes, 1 tonne of hydrogen theoretically could be utilized to provide 40MWh of energy. But the energy requiremnt to get the 1 tonne H2 from electrolysis will be more. From the ITM HGasS2SP data (1390kW input power for half tonne H2 a day) looks something like 33.36MWh (1390kW x 24hours for the 540kg ), so about 66MWh input for 1 tonne. The input energy source would/should be coming from renewable...wind, solar e.g. the electrolyser installed nearby windfarm and producing hydrogen at off peak demand. Possibly could also install at ammonia production site to produce hydrogen instead of using methane/steam.....not sure on the relative operation costs or if there is any drive to do that.
Water requirement depends on how much hydrogen is needed. 9litres water per kg of hydrogen.
e.g. HGasS2SP potentially 4860litres per day to produce the 540kg of H2.
Thanks for the info. Interesting.
Running/maintenance costs and water supply, I was thinking about at the site of installation....customer consideration when deciding to buy.
Thanks for that. No, but I saw similar info. This is where they produce the electrolysers. I was trying understand what the 1GW was related to and get some idea how much hydrogen can be produced when installed. The product sheets on their website give some idea.
Thanks. So the 1GW seems to be just the sum of the input powers to the total number of the HGas…. electrolyser systems that they can produce in one year at this factory. e.g. 719 x HGasS2SP (input power 1390kW) in one year. When installed they could produce maximum of 719 x 540kg of H2 a day.... 388260kg. Could be used for industrial processes (e.g. production of ammonia) or I think that equates to 15GWh (assuming 39kWh per kg of hydrogen) if utilized for energy. I guess depends on the site running/maintenance costs and water supply.
1GW per year?
33.9p a share is an eighth of a share at £2.71. It seems the sp was always going to fall to at least that sp once the details were decided (and details are decided before an announcement)....because...if you held shares above that price it would make sense to sell and buy back later at the lower sp. Those that held and get the B share and 7/8 of what they had before in the main share will break even when the sp is back to £2.71. e.g. if you had 8000 shares before you now have 7000 at £2.56 = £17920 + 0.339 x 8000 in cash = £2712. Total = £20, 632. 8000 @ £2.71 was £21, 680.
The solution is simple. At the time of the trade set a rule that the MM needs to declare the trade "buy" or "sell". But that will not change the situation much. It isn't really that difficult to work out which trades are buys/sells...just observe the actual prices going through and you can work it out. The more critical information that is hidden from immediate view comes from the large trades whose declaration may be delayed for days... MMs are allowed to delay declaration of trades seemingly at their own discretion.
Here it is. Margin call at 19.5p. Not sure what the situation is now. http://investor.cloudbuy.com/news/further-re-director-dealing-on-27-oct-2014.html http://www.shareprophets.com/views/9223/cloudbuy-chairman-ronald-duncan-changes-his-mind-on-dodgy-efh-loan
Something like that. I believe there was something related to the sp staying below 19.5p for some period. I gather that the ADVFN bb are more clued up on all that carry on.
Cheers, will look at BRD.