London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East and have access to Premium Chat. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
I see you Rodney
Shakin’ that ass
Shakin’ that ass
Shakin’ that ass
I see you Rodney
Shakin’ that ass
Shakin’ that ass
Shakin’ that ass.
Sorry for those in different time zones who are having their brekkie.
The only torch I carry is for you, dearest Peter
Rodney is prepared to shine his torch into places that others shy away from.
You beat me too it Fleccy. Lol
"Hey Nige & Co. See you're still crawling up fleccy's derriere!"
Rod, we all know you're the only one on here interested in derriere's.
"See Meggitt ( who are involved in Military defense systems ) have had an approach this morning"
I saw that, and I have to admit I don't know much about the company, but Parker-Hannifin must see something they like. It will probably be another nail in the UK's manufacturing coffin, should the Government allow it to go through.
Meggitt have said:
"Parker-Hannifin said it will offer legally binding commitments to the British government on its role in the country.
The U.S. company will continue to meet its contractual obligations for goods and services supplied to the government, keep a majority of UK nationals on Meggitt's board and maintain the company's UK headquarters here.
On jobs, it said it would maintain Meggitt's R&D, product engineering and direct manufacturing labour headcount in the UK at no less than current levels, while increasing by at least 10% the number of overall apprenticeship opportunities."
Personally I don't believe any guaranties, under these circumstances, and just see this as the continued asset stripping of UK PLC. If this continues, the country will own nothing, patents will go abroad. I believe a lot of small companies are tied to Universities, with research into various new technologies, they dissappear abroad too in many cases.
I see Meggitt have a section dealing with advanced composites, and many other things. I looked on their website 30 minutes ago, I can't get on it now. It's probably swamped by people checking it out to see what the US company is eyeing up.
Hey Nige & Co. See you're still crawling up fleccy's derriere!
See Meggitt ( who are involved in Military defense systems ) have had an approach this morning...... M&A in FTSE about to increase imo .... Too many undervalued UK companies for them to be ignored esp as the world is expected to open up and GDP to accelerate.
Fleccy.... "Openreach could be the focus, not a takeover"
I think that you're more than likely right Fleccy. You will recall months before Drahi announced his BT shareholding, media were reporting that he was interested in acquiring Openreach for £20B. The BOD probably turned down his interest, so the next best thing is build a sizable stake so that he has a seat at the table to change minds. Drahi is a winner, he's used to getting what he wants, he's not a billionaire for nothing.
It’s only a matter of time.
The electricity network ownership is split as follows:
SSEPD – SSE (100% UK)
SP Energy Networks – Scottish Power (100%, Iberdrola, Spain)
Northern Ireland Electricity Networks – ESB Group (95% State Owned)
Electricity Northwest – consortium of funds controlled by the Commonwealth Bank of Australia and IIF International Holding GP Limited which is a constituent of the Infrastructure Investments Fund (percentages not available)
Northern Powergrid – Berkshire Hathaway Energy (100%, US)
SP Energy Networks – Scottish Power (100% Iberdrola, Spain)
WPD – PPL Corporation (100% US)
UKPN – Cheung Kong Group (40% Hong Kong), Power Asset Holdings Limited (40% Hong Kong) and Li Ka Shing Foundation (20%)
SSEPD – SSE (100%, UK)
"The question is will someone snatch bt from drahi before he can make his move advfn are talking £4 , £5"
I doubt Drahi is after taking over BT, I think he may have other plans. He may, or may not, increase his shareholding toward the 30% threshold, but Openreach could be the focus, not a takeover. Get enough stock held by different institutional investors, and they could team up to force changes without taking over the company. The Government could stop any potential takeovers, but I'm not sure how they'd deal with activist investors, with big equity stakes, pursuing an agenda to force the board into making changes.
It's been reported on quite a few occasions that private equity is eyeing up Openreach, time will tell if that's the target.
The question is will someone snatch bt from drahi before he can make his move advfn are talking £4 , £5
But seems jansens happy with drahi but something is brewing and it's not my kettle
IMO when something happens it will be huge and rock the market let's wait and see :)
An outright t/o might not be Drahi intention, who knows, but a mega merger, with HMG blessing, could well be imo.
Easier ways to earn returns on billions than investing in a historically constricted tanker of a company like BT .... One thing I'm sure of is, he's not in it for purely return on capital in the form of cash.... hidden agenda at play, which is likely to surface within 6 - 18 months.
For me, this is a case of accumulating a position on any weakness and holding, whilst waiting for the rabbit to appear.
Despite the mystery of how Drahi came to accumulate his twelve percent with no identifiable falls in holdings elsewhere ,(except for the subsequent Blackrock declaration)there is no SE rule that forbids him accumulating up to 30% of the equity without making a bid. Obviously the accumulation of a growing stake would start to drive the SP up and he presumably wouldn't want that if he were planning to bid . It is also clear that he will be aware of increasing government concern about foreign ownership of key strategic elements of the UK infrastructure , it may not be battleships, but broadband is where wars of the future will be (are being?) fought.It seems to me that whatever his strategy it CANNOT include ownership, it could merely be seeking to drive up the price of an undervalued company to hold an increasingly valuable asset or intending to force a rationalisation of the BT empire , the sum of whose parts are surely worth more than the current market cap of about £18 bill , Openreach , EE mobile, sports rights and revenues , consumer broadband , business services, ..... Spinning off EE as a separate entity might be worth £8/10 bill(just a guess)unloading the sports rights and customer base a billion or two more ....pretty soon you're talking real money!!
What makes you assume he would do that?
Can’t believe it would make sense?
He would have to pay the prevailing price at time of final transfer so it makes little sense for either party.
He will stay within the regulations so I can’t see how he can buy anymore for 6 months.
Nige and Fleccy, It would appear that Drahi has commissioned one (or more) of the investment banks, to act on his behalf to buy BT shares from funds he periodically makes available into his very own holding account and under the banner of the investment bank. Then at a point that suits Drahi, he issues a statement saying that he owns X amount.
That’s the only way I can get my head around it.
"how would we know whether, or not, other parties are accumulating shares on his behalf?"
yes my thought exactly. This is the reason that I wondered if he was also exempt from adding to his stake. The press claimed at the time of the announcement that Drahi had acquire his BT holing within 2 days, I think that we would all would agree agree that this stake building too a lot longer than 2 days, most probably months, yet he managed to do this without disclosing? So maybe there are ways around Drahi adding without disclosing? This way he keeps a lower BT share price that's in his best interest if he does intend bidding for BT. Just speculating of cause.
" Is Drahi still allowed to add to his 12.1% of BT shareholding, or would he have to wait to disclose any additional BT shares?"
I can't see how he could be stopped from increasing his holding, he just wouldn't be allowed to approach the company, or other shareholders, with a view to taking over the company. He would have to declare any increase in his holdings though, and the market would then form its own opinion based on any increase. In view of the fact his announcement of a 12.1% holding appeared out of the blue, how would we know whether, or not, other parties are accumulating shares on his behalf?
Fleccy, you may know the answer to this question. Under the 6 month agreement that Drahi currently has regarding not being allowed to bid for BT until December at the earliest. Is Drahi still allowed to add to his 12.1% of BT shareholding, or would he have to wait to disclose any additional BT shares?
"If we are back in constant £2 territory by autumn, and high £2 territory in December, when Drahi can say more, I’ll be happy with that."
I've had a look back through the holdings in company, going back to the 15th Jan 2020 , apologies if I've missed any.
Norges Bank Holding
You'd think there was some way of seeing how Drahi accumulated his holding, adding in the 4.6% trade 7th June 2021, but it's impossible to match any figures lol. The recent Morgan Stanley notification is interesting, because it came in and immediately left them the next day.
Back in 2009 the share price hit rock bottom at 70 odd pence. It took a couple of months to track above a quid. For the next 2 years it ranged from 110-140. It took another year to hit 200 but fell back and for next year it hung around at 190-220. So 3 years to get to £2 good a proper.
This time around the share price doubled from a low of a quid to 2 quid in 7 months, even tho it fell back. If we are back in constant £2 territory by autumn, and high £2 territory in December, when Drahi can say more, I’ll be happy with that.
"i have a portfolio of twenty shareholdings and bt and vod are the two i have least faith in and will be sold asap."
Why do you say that, because the stock price's are low? They are both safe investments and the worst thing that could happen, from an investors point of view, is that Vodafone cut to zero, and BT's dividend suspension remains in place.
BT is most definitely undervalued on all fundamentals, even compared to other foreign Telecom stocks. Why have telecom stocks taken a beating on the back of covid? They've come through relatively unscathed, and Ryanair is beating them both on price performance, even though Ryanair is in the worst affected sector; BT has recently recovered much of its pre covid price, VOD isn't currently going anywhere, but RYA is sitting around the same price it was in December 2019, even though RYA has consistently suffered losses during the pandemic. Telecoms will come into their own, once the big players allow it.
i have a portfolio of twenty shareholdings and bt and vod are the two i have least faith in and will be sold asap. its interesting to see how you want to get involved.
I like reading many of the posts on here, which i have read regularly over last few months (fleccy technical information on company matters are very informative too) I have also been following BT results and investment and debt levels closely.
I bought into both BT and VODAFONE on Thursday, as although BT results were pretty much in line with expectations (bar the one off tax charge movement, which they will benefit from on their investment as the government is allowing the investment to be tax efficient as announced in last budget). I feel the sell off IN SP, was just due to the recent rise recently and a bit of market hope growth numbers would start coming through . But Philip Janson has said all along this is a long term return to profit growth programme from its investments and to me, from the results in the uk especially you could see the first green shoots of that growth starting. The global nos need looking at and hope it was a pandemic issue of companies underinvesting through the pandemic.
But imho keep going Mr Janson with the plan and the benefits will continue to start coming through on the path to growth. I did also invest in Vodafone too at 116p as they are also comparably cheap and cashflow is very good to well cover the current 7 per cent yield (which is now a sensible lower dividend payment). Plus when travel fully returns over the coming quarters, this also allows for more roaming income, which is quite significant for vodafone specifically.
In summary for me, much of the telecoms sector looks cheap, but bt stands out with a great strategy for growth with strong dynamic ceo in place to deliver and execute and Vodafone for cheap valuation and better growth as we come out of pandemic together with good income, whilst awaiting for the share price to increase.
Additionally with inflation coming through the world, these stocks are a good inflation defensive play to have in your portfolio as their charges increase above whatever cpi is.
With current global market valuations, i do see bt being a 310p and vodafone a 160p fair value price, so definitely still some great value in both share prices.
Had to sign up as BUZBY, being a new bt investor.