Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Lol. I think a lot of BT shareholders feel that way.
I am pretty close to losing the will to live
"Lol we struggle to understand if bt share price will go up or down Monday."
Lol EMMJANE, that's because the BT share price is in Superposition until you observe it on Monday.
Toff, Entropy and the Law of Conservation of Energy aren't in conflict. It is true that Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, the amount of Energy in the Universe is the same now as it was at the start, but maximum Entropy will mean that there's no useful energy left to do work. At the end of the Universe, even Black holes will evaporate away (look up Hawking radiation) and all the energy will be distributed throughout the void that was once the Universe. The energy will still be there, but it will be held in the soup of sub atomic particles and of no use. Grim I know, but the nature of our Universe is that everything has a shelf life including the Universe itself.
Lol we struggle to understand if bt share price will go up or down Monday. I don’t think we’re too qualified too the destination of the universe on here yet
Fleecy
“Who knows? One thing's for sure, the Universe is on a path to destruction. The Universe is destined to reach a point of maximum Entropy, it will be incapable of sustaining life a long time before that though”
I disagree. It’s my theory that the universe is an eternal free lunch. The first law of thermodynamics is the conservation of energy - energy is displaced not spent. (Dark energy and matter are key players in this process)
Entropy is the second law of thermodynamics
Black holes are the wombs of the universe - it is through these, entropy (chaos) is destroyed and order restored. Then recycling begins.
The universe- AI with soul - eternal and infinite.
I like the many worlds interpretation (i.e. multiple outcomes in parallel universes) just for the shear coolness factor of it. I do also see pre-determinism as a strong contender however.
I've often wondered about the concept of free choice and whether it actually exists or not. It seems to me that on a human level, every decision you make in life is essentially a function of the genetics you were born with and the environment into which you were born. It seems to follow therefore that the universe is in essence just following a pre determined script.
That's one of the things I like about physics, once you start considering the big theoretical questions, you end up back in the arena of philosophy and belief.
" I’m of the opinion that only artificial intelligence could have made the universe and although we think we’re acting on our own free will we are being deceived."
Who knows? One thing's for sure, the Universe is on a path to destruction. The Universe is destined to reach a point of maximum Entropy, it will be incapable of sustaining life a long time before that though. Eventually all the stars will burn out and even matter will break down to subatomic particles, at which point the Universe will be a cold soup of subatomic particles. Hopefully BT will be testing £5 again before that happens though.
Fleecy
You may have already watched it, but the BBC did an excellent two-part episode documentary on quantum entanglement.
It’s hosted by Jim Al-Khalili. I don’t thinks it’s on iPlayer right now but you’ll find it on YouTube.
Watch the card game, when he demonstrates pre-determinism. That is a most compelling argument and it’s absolutely mind blowing.
Toff
So, if it’s AI then what evolved to develop it. Is light the limiting factor in a 3D existence or just the transition point to d4 d5 etc, If there are parallel existences then which is real, or are they all real. If in our 3D existence you could move into an existence where light is not a limitation to speed and you could re enter in the past would that cause a paradox that means you no longer existed In the future, how did you manage to go back and cause the paradox. Can something come from nothing, but then what is nothing if there are more than 3 dimensions, nothing could exist as something in another dimension.
Time for wine, or is that wine for time ?
Fleecy
“then the person who decides to go forward and have the operation will die in 99 out of 100 realities.”
That’s a good analogy. But in a universe that’s infinite (the borders are merely horizons) there’re also an infinite number of earths with an infinite number of ourselves so if 99 out of 100 die on the operation table does it really matter. I’m of the opinion that only artificial intelligence could have made the universe and although we think we’re acting on our own free will we are being deceived. Haven’t you ever had the feeling something is going to happen no matter what?
"Believing in Pre-Determinism is the same as thinking we're following the will of the God's and choice is just an illusion."
I'm not saying I disagree with you Toff, I have an open mind on Pre-Determinism. Sayings like "What will be will be", or "Whatever happens happens" originate from that way of thinking. One problem with Pre-Determinism is that it exonerates criminality, how do you punish a crime if the perpetrator didn't have a choice?
Do you see where I'm coming from? Pre-Determinism makes everything pointless.
I do believe in the multiverse theory and decision points creating multiple outcomes. An example of my take on things might go something like this:
Imagine you're diagnosed with a Brain Tumour and the Doctor says you're going to die in 6 months without an operation, but there's a 1% chance that the operation will be successful and if unsuccessful you'll die on the operating table. Most will say that 1% chance of success is too low and i'll take the extra 6 months of life, thanks but no thanks. If there is such a thing as multiple realities, then the person who decides to go forward and have the operation will die in 99 out of 100 realities. Since the version that survives wakes up and the other 99 die, as far as the patient is concerned life goes on.
The Quantum world just creates more questions than answers, particularly around Philosophy and the impact of our own Consciousness on reality.
"My definition of Pre-determinism is the theory that everything is determined beforehand. Subatomic particles are engineered in such a way that they predicate destiny."
Then you must also believe that there's no such as thing as Freewill, or Choice. In a Universe where everything is pre-determined to as far back as the Big Bang, then we're all just working to a script.
The Cosmic Bell Test was aimed at closing the "Freedom of Choice" loophole, which is why they chose Quasars Billions of light years away, to get as close to the start of the Universe as possible. Of course they wont be able to go right to the nanoseconds at the very start of the Universe. The problem with Pre/Super- determinism is that it will never be possible to completely disprove it, a bit like religion. Believing in Pre-Determinism is the same as thinking we're following the will of the God's and choice is just an illusion.
Fleecy
“The current scientific consensus is that faster-than-light communication is not possible”
The speed of light is Einstein’s universal speed limit. But he was a classical physicist not a a quantum one. (Theory of relativity is classical physics)
Having said that expansionism is faster than the speed of light. The Big Bang - supernova explosions - are said to be faster the the speed of light - but they are singularities.
Quantum physics, pertaining to the subatomic world, is completely different from the physical world in every aspect. For one - there is no history in the subatomic world. If you know about the double-slit experiment you’ll also know the subatomic world is the sum-of-all-histories. It is in this world known known and unknown unknown mysteries lie; such as dark matter and dark energy. I believe there’s a way for matter to negate space-time but it has yet to be discovered.
My definition of Pre-determinism is the theory that everything is determined beforehand. Subatomic particles are engineered in such a way that they predicate destiny. And that could only be done by artificial intelligence. I know Bell’s experiment confirmed entanglement but I can’t see how it could have disproven pre-determinism.
There are more things in heaven and earth Horacio than are dreamt of in our philosophy.
Toff (quoting Hamlet)
"But what’s far more interesting is the idea of quantum entanglement being used for instant communication. It wouldn’t really make that much difference on the earth because communication delays are negligible. "
Actually that's not true. Latency due to the speed of light in Glass is important, especially in trans Atlantic and trans Pacific links. For example, most Trans Atlantic Fibre's have latency's of over 60 milliseconds. Hibernia Express was installed to get as lower latency as possible and is aimed at High Frequency Trading. Funnily enough, low orbit satellite systems might actually have a use in Trading, as the Trans Atlantic and Trans Pacific latency's would actually beat Fibre, due to the increased speed of light in a vacuum.
Pre-determinism would suggest the particles are locked in a specific pattern at the point of Entanglement, which would mean that Entanglement isn't real and the particles are just marching to the same beat. Pre-determinism (super-determinism) was disproven by the Cosmic Bell test.
https://astronomy.com/news/2018/08/distant-quasars-confirm-quantum-entanglement
Scientists also say that Entanglement can't be used for faster than light communication, but experiments are ongoing.
"Superluminal communication is a hypothetical process in which information is sent at faster-than-light (FTL) speeds. The current scientific consensus is that faster-than-light communication is not possible, and to date it has not been achieved in any experiment.
Superluminal communication is impossible, because in a Lorentz-invariant theory it could be used to transmit information into the past. This contradicts causality and leads to logical paradoxes."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light_communication
Quantum Computer's can use entangled Qubits for calculations and Quantum encryption is now possible, so it's anyone's guess what uses might be found in the future, but FTL communication doesn't appear to be one of them unfortunately.
Sum
“but what about the possibility of additional dimensions where what we think of as distance does not exist as a concept.”
I thought about that too, and extra dimensions could possibly fit the bill. There has to be some way for subatomic particles to bypass space-time and arrive anywhere in the universe instantly. .
My preferred explanation for quantum entanglement is still predeterminism though; meaning it was engineered that way from the beginning.
By artificial intelligence - commonly mistaken for god...
Toff .
I'm no physicist either... although I have previously read A Brief History of Time! However, for entertainment, I'll take a shot at this one.
The distance between the two entangled particles may be large in 3 dimensional space, but what about the possibility of additional dimensions where what we think of as distance does not exist as a concept. Kind of like the same way you can theoretically take a shortcut through spacetime via a wormhole according to general relativity.
Good old Heisenburger.
Fleecy
“entangled particles losing entanglement once a particle is observed”
Actually that’s not quite right. The particle can never be measured accurately (position & momentum) because the very act of measuring it distorts the readings - hence the uncertainty principle.
Fleecy
“I'm not a physicist, but I've read up on things like the delayed quantum eraser experiments and entangled particles losing entanglement once a particle is observed”
That’s what’s know as the “uncertainty principle”
But what’s far more interesting is the idea of quantum entanglement being used for instant communication. It wouldn’t really make that much difference on the earth because communication delays are negligible. But you only have to go as far as Mars - and you’ll find a 15 minute delay (it’s what’s known as the extended present) and if man ever succeeded in interstellar travel and colonized other planets BT would be the richest company in the galaxy.
Communication between quantum entangled particles is simultaneous. No one knows why but it is - it doesn’t matter if it’s 40 miles away or 40 light years. The only explanation I can think of is predeterminism.
Fascinating
Toff
Another article.
"The data on that link contains intellectual property considered so sensitive the two organizations have previously transported it using couriers on portable, encrypted storage devices. The new QKD network makes it possible to send that on a 10 Gigabits per second fiber link using BT’s Openreach Optical Spectrum Access (OSA) and the magic of dense wavelength division multiplexing (DWDM)."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndunn/2020/10/01/bt-is-using-quantum-technology-to-secure-gigabytes-of-sensitive-data-sent-between-two-industrial-sites-in-the-uk/
"'instant communication over long distances'.. signalling I suppose?"
This is nothing new. My wife can do it with just one look........
"'instant communication over long distances'.. signalling I suppose?"
You'd think it might be possible for faster than light communication, at the Quantum level using entanglement, but apparently not as it contravenes causality. I think photons can be a wave and a particle at the same time , by observing the particle it collapses the wave and fixes the position of the particle. One theory is that the Photon is spread across multiple Universes and the probability Wave collapses upon observation, but at different points in different Universes. It's mind blowing, who would have thought that looking at something, without interfering with it, would alter the result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi7YwxxZQ5A
'instant communication over long distances'
.. signalling I suppose?
Wonder if post Brexit we revert to OFTEL and no interference from global regulators (at a distance)
Yes. What Einstein referred to as "spooky action at a distance" has always baffled me as well. I think it probably indicates that there are extra dimensions to the universe that are not currently known or understood that facilitate this kind of instant communication over long distances.
"BT and Toshiba Deploy First UK Industrial Quantum Secure Fibre Network"
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/10/bt-and-toshiba-deploy-first-uk-industrial-quantum-secure-fibre-network.html
The article says this uses a single photon for encryption, so i'm not sure if this system uses entanglement, but this is really interesting stuff.
I'm not a physicist, but I've read up on things like the delayed quantum eraser experiments and entangled particles losing entanglement once a particle is observed. This is a really weird phenomenon and contradicts our common sense view of the world.
Currently its possible to put laser light through splitters and sniff of the light and subsequently decode the data, but using Quantum encryption the act of viewing the entangled particles destroys the connection between particles and indicates that the data has been compromised, the particles have the equivalent of spidey sense. According to theory, the entangled particles could be at the opposite ends of the universe and the instant one of the particles are observed the connection between particles is destroyed. I think it was Einstein that coined the phrase spooky action at a distance.