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I ordered two n95 masks in January and they stalled me until I forced the company I ordered it from in Cambridge to admit that they were all being redirected. I wrote on a forum in March that "The decision to tell people not to wear masks will come back to haunt PHE". Yesterday on LBC the world mask expert (yes there is one apparently) vindicated my words. As Minimil said, it's not rocket science.
@Chengdo - Yes we are on the same page on this one, but going in opposite directions lol. Let's hope Avacta 10 min test does exactly what it says on the tin.
"Wear a mask, keep your distance, wash your hands is not exactly rocket science is it"?
I said exactly that almost two months ago on a BBC forum regarding masks, and was shot down! 47 votes against and 2 in favour (on was my wife)!
I had backed up my comments with academic articles on the effectiveness of surgical masks as to wearing nothing, JAMA, BMJ, etc.., but was ridiculed. I came to the point to say that those do called experts telling people on TV masks were no good, will have, one day, to apologise. They did that in Europe when they admitted they told people that because they didn't have enough masks!
Sometimes the truth slaps you in the face but you still can't see it...many lives have been lost needlessly.
Minimil, i've finally got a flight out of Malaysia (since March) and I'm dreading going back to the UK. As you say, it's been done so much better over here, the people are more responsible and the death rate is far lower. And now I've got the Pillock over there who's responsible for it all telling me to go into 14 days quarantine. Not if I'm a bloody fruit picker though! Why? To protect myself once I'm back in the total ****-up of things that he's made of it? You are absolutely right with your last few sentences. It's been embarrassing to watch it all as a Brit overseas.
Great posts on this subject. Thanks.
You've also got to consider (as some of you have) that you might be crossing borders. At the moment, we are letting travellers come and go without testing (granted the number of flights in and out have reduced significantly). As stated the other day, my brother departed from the UK to USA a day before the USA ban. He had to self isolate for 2 weeks on arrival in the USA. When he came back to UK the other week, he was told to self isolate at home for 2 weeks.
Wouldn't a 10 minute POC test eliminate the need for self isolation? In the world of business - TIME IS MONEY.
Wouldn't a 10 minute POC test help stop the spread of the virus from crossing from one country to another? The virus did not just magically appear in the UK. It crossed borders to get here, probably via a passenger on an aeroplane.
A 10 minute test taken before you leave home. If you are positive then there is no need to travel to the airport - wasting your time and theirs. Insurance has to be in place so that you can get a refund of your flight and accommodation if you are unable to depart because you have Covid19.
On arrival at the airport, you have to either take another test if there isn't an app / barcode thingy in place to prove that you tested prior to leaving. The price of the test is added to the fee when you originally book the flight.
You can fill the plane to capacity - except for those that have failed the test prior to flying. No need for PPE (as long as the staff on the plane have been tested). The country that you land in knows that the arrivals are Covid free. Your accommodation knows that you are covid free (with proof ie phone app / documentation with your testing location, method, date, time & outcome etc).
Apologies if I've posted anything already mentioned.
BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME..
@London - I am a visitor to London (not by choice btw) and I am dismayed by so called intelligent people going on about their days as if the disease does not exist. Yes, in Asia we had SARS to deal with and the experience of that has helped the governments react quickly in terms of lock downs and the nearly all of the people behave responsibly. The West needs to take note. As soon as the borders are back open in Asia I am gone from here where for me (as a vulnerable person age, health etc) there is less chance of catching Covid-19. Wear a mask, keep your distance, wash your hands is not exactly rocket science is it?
Most people in London don't seem to care. Going into shops without masks and gloves, not keeping 2m and so on. It's bizarre, but very British: pure Thanatos. I agree with PL - why would I want to sit on a flight knowing someone might have an infectious and lethal disease? Unless, of course, I don't care about my life.
Maybe our test will be taken up by more humanist, kinder, more organised countries. Avoidance is the name of the game here. It's kinda infantile, non-adult.
Chengd. One minor point missing. The recycled air passes through HEPA filters. Google them, they are amazing
Most modern aircraft recycle about 50 percent of cabin air, with the remaining 50 percent being fresh, outside air. ... Even though cabin air is exchanged through the system about 20 to 30 times per hour, there remains a risk, albeit minor, of airborne disease transmission.
Terry you're tested at an official outlet. Your strip is bar coded and linked to an online image of you taken at the time of testing. You have to spit on the strip at the time you're given your unique testing strip.
For 24 hours any venue, shop or eatery that has signed up can scan your test strip, see that it's you and know that within the limits of the technology you're 'safe'. They can also be confident that it isn't someone else's strip.
This might even be a centralised government led and funded scheme?
They've spent plenty of money on worse things so far and I'm sure they'd get a good discount.
Big, Big, Big is what this might be?
I wish nothing more than this test being used all the time and it has massive potential. I’m invested so I agree we are onto an amazing thing. I just think the amount of tests some people think will be needed are over exaggerated. Let’s take aircraft again for example, Mr Spacetomato claims that the air is recycled and that will spread the disease, that’s not true. Planes have recirculation fans granted, however the air that goes through these fans is also sent through hospital theatre grade HEPA filters that trap 99.9% of bacteria including corona viruses. Also the air on a plane, even with recirc fans operating, is completely refreshed every 3-5 minutes! An air conditioned building is 10-12 minutes. The only way the virus will be passed on during air travel is via the usual less than two metres or touching surfaces etc. That’s why PPE is required to clean and protect. Things like only using one toilet between a certain group of passengers by cabin or row etc is in the framework being drawn up. There are testing facilities being created at airports as we speak and testing will be done but I can’t see lines of people waiting to be tested before a flight. The way some people are speaking people might end up taking three tests a day just to do different activities. If I’m wrong I’ll hold my hands up and be thankful that my shares are worth more than I though possible.
For most industries i see maybe weekly tests for staff at high risk and having close contact with customers. Track and trace will be the governments main way of controlling the virus going forward. By the time logistically we have the ability to produce all the tests for all the industries for all the countries people are talking about, a vaccine will be available. Most people will have the vaccine, some won’t. Most will.
In this strange world we live in I cannot see how you would have a strip for 24 hours. Each venue would need to test or how do you prove it’s your test? As I said strange world I could see a black market for negative strips if there was a time frame on each one
Dentist shareholder here - I think there's two perspectives to think about, the patient and the dentist. From a patient's point of view they want to be confident that the dentist and nurse do not have Covid and they want confidence that the practice has got suitable measures in place that reduce the risk of covid entering the practice. From the dentist's perspective, we clearly want to know every patient doesn't have Covid. Our Standard Operating Procedures will change as the government alert levels change, so whilst we are in alert levels 3-5 we will be wearing enhanced PPE (FFP3 masks and gowns, both nurse and dentist) during an Aerosol Generating Procedure (AGP) so that's drilling/ultrasonic scaling. Most practices do not have a negative pressure system in their surgeries and so will have to leave the surgeries for 1 hour after performing an AGP. Following this 1 hour 'fallow' period we then clean for probably 15 minutes to get ready for the next patient. What does the dentist do for that 1 hour 15 minutes?? Essentially whatever happens, dental practice revenues are going to be hit hard, perhaps taking 30-50% of previous revenue at a guess. I suspect a lot of practices will fold or a lot of associate dentists will lose jobs if this doesn't go away. Now if we had an low cost rapid POC test, this could open up dentistry up but it really does depend on the sensitivity of the test and the LOD imo. I don't know where the threshold of acceptability would be for dentists to stop using enhanced PPE and stop the surgery 'fallow' period after AGP's. In terms of dentists and nurses testing daily, I don't think that would be made mandatory but if we found that patient's confidence in coming to the dentist was improved by staff taking daily tests then I'm sure dentists would be happy to do that. They're businesses at the end of the day so they will do whatever it takes to make sure the business is viable. I watched a webinar the other day and a high profile dentist asked the question 'when did infection control in our profession move from risk mitigation to risk elimination??'...I had to laugh....because before we weren't in the middle of a global pandemic??
Perhaps for places like London you'd have permanent booths that actually serve ALL potential uses:
Restaurants, pubs, West End Theatres, Arsenal, Chelsea, Lords and the Oval, Oxford street, the Apple store etc, etc.
Absolutely EVERYTHING that is currently closed due to lock down.
One test strip in the morning qualifies you to 24 hours (?) access to any business or venue that's signed up to the online scheme to view your image to know that you're safe?
You could say the same for any industry e.g, manufacturing. If you wanted to get to full capacity, you wouldn’t want Covid ripping through your workforce resulting in lots of absences. Maybe play it safe and buy a weekly test for your employees? That’s a lot of tests...
That’s it. RK was right. 1.4Bn tests a month and a MCap of £630Bn it is.
What a great business opportunity?
When the Avacta test strips are available someone should set up a mobile testing company where you can hire the staff/testing booths and tech for your one off event. Perhaps West Ham would rather outsource this too? You'd have to take the testing stations down between games after all and store them somewhere.
5 nights of Take That at the O2? Glastonbury?
That'd be a nice little earner for the first mover.
DM83 I think with the airlines we are all looking about getting customers on board. But the airlines have a duty of care to staff also in dentist surgerys . It is only a matter of time before the unions get involved. One sick/dead air stewardess and BOOM
Yup, not a huge stretch of the imagination, oh, and you’d probably want to double check yourself before heading to the airport. We’ve got that covered via medusa19.com
Captain Stanley's suggestion is a really good one. Whilst particularly liking the barcode idea, it's likely that the airlines will pool their resources and setup a designated test area with bank style test tellers and a back office where the results are inputted into the system, if that makes sense. You'd then receive your result at check-in.
I’ve mixed feelings Chengdo, compliments indeed, but I can’t believe that waffle could rank higher than Have I Got Flus For You
The ECB should use Covid to get people watching county cricket again.
Big stadiums and likely modest crowds that could be accommodated relatively safely. County cricket with people watching and a bit of atmosphere, wouldn't that be great.
Bottom line, flights? If they have a choice of paying the ticket's additional 15-20 quid for the test or not going on holiday, they'll pay. Logistically, it would need to happen before check-in otherwise it would be a blimmin' nightmare for the immigration and baggage handlers - but that's the airlines problem, not ours.
Cs, its either that or vastly reduced crowds. As long as covid is here it will not be possible to pack stadiums and pubs.
RE testing West Ham fans pre match.
I've been thinking about this too and here's how I'd do it.
Satellite booths around the ground, at tube stations and railway stations etc.
You join the short queue. When you're at the front she gives you a bar coded test strip which she scans. You then have to spit on it there and then and she takes your photo with a web cam.
You wander off to the pub.
At the ticket gate you show the test strip. It's negative. The strip is scanned and if your face appears on the screen then in you go.
Compared to most of the changes that have been made to accommodate Covid 19 this would be easy, relatively cheap and should work?
PL75, I have obviously taught you well. That was perhaps your finest work to date and it is time to let you soar, high above the clouds, rising into the great blue yonder alone ;) Consider yourself a free bird. Now, where's MrSpacetom wandered off to?