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Flec
the whole point of you posting links to graphs in the first place, was because you don't like buybacks and in your mind it was somehow a way undermining the benefit of buybacks.
I am afraid it doesn't. Nothing wrong witjh a graph ,but people can see how many shares are in issue when an RNS is issued.
Without buybabks there would now be 76,638,729,101 shares in issue
''Has it not dawned on you yet.....''
has it not dawned om you yet, that whatever you say is a pile of siht- history says it all.
Flec
'' fundamentals and shares in issue for solid companies doesn't appear to currently carry much weight.''
fundementals are fundements. The market values a business on a daily basis. Whether the markets value is fully represents fundementals, is something that investors need to make decisions about. The market is valuing Lloyds at £33 Billion. That would be the case whether there were 120, 60, or 30 Billion shares in issue.
''LTI I find it offensive when you describe my views as idiotic when I make valid points''
''''when you can't offer a valid argument against their opinion.''
I don't live in the world of WOKE, and don't care if putting someone finds it offensive being told home truths. I have not given an opinion/argument, I have give you a FACT .
If there was a 2 for 1 share split for Tuesday morning it is a FACT that the market would not bvalue Lloyds at £66 Billion, just as if a split was made creating an extra 13 Billion shares (about the amount that buybacks have taken out of the market), the price per share would not be 52p on Tuesday
Fleccy,
I trust you are well bud !
You do talk much sense , I might not agree with 10% of observations but such have been debated in the past .
LTI needs help !
LTI clearly market valuations are based on various factors, fundamentals and shares in issue for solid companies doesn't appear to currently carry much weight. I would suggest sentiment and momentum is what's driving valuations for various stocks, Rolls Royce is clearly benefiting from the momentum trade for whatever reason. When you look at articles reasoning RR's climb they talk about growth in earnings, but ignore the fact that the earnings have grown from a low covid base. It's obvious that narratives are currently the driving force behind many stock valuations, but the financial media shape the narrative to suit their own vested interests. First they say interest rates are too low for Banks to make a profit, due to low net interest margin, then interest rates rise and they say interest rates are too high and defaults will cripple the bank profits, they just make it up as they go along.
LTI I find it offensive when you describe my views as idiotic, when I make valid points, it makes me wonder if you're somewhere on the autism spectrum since you seem blinkered and unable to take on other people's point of view, and get abusive when you can't offer a valid argument against their opinion.
LTI,
Has it not dawned on you yet that buybacks are a scam ? Decisions made by bankers , who can't be trusted , to line their own pockets .
In simple terms , for our failed Mensa applicant , they are taking shares out of circulation with what should be dividend profits and then awarding themselves shares .
I don't think you'll have noticed lloy is reducing it's workforce annually . Less employees , more shares for Senior management in bonuses .
Utterly unethical face of capitalism .
Ofc, you're all talking shyte, as Landlord Lloyds are priced purely on speculation. There is no logic to it. The SP could be 20p or £2, whatever some knob will pay. A bit like any Ebay auction. Based on speculation, the market has looked at Landlords and looked at mass immigration, put them both together and thinks it is party time. Take advantage of the housing bubble created by all numpty landlords and their immigration requirement.
Lloyds will be 30p again. The Uk is bust and it's just a matter of time. Especially with this going green futility, making even more debt and poverty for Uk people, adding to the tax payer's benefits bill. China are opening masses of new coal power stations, so the Uk going green is a total nonsense, that only the clowns in the house of lords would approve of.
Sell high >50p and buy low
Flec
''evidence suggests that the link between shares in issue and the stock price aren't directly correlated''
Why is it that you can post some sensible things, but then be so idiotic on another issue JUST because you do not like buybacks. ffs snap out of it.
The market values Lloyds banking group on a daily basis. The price per share is based on the market value and the number of shares in issue. Whichever way you have the equation, with
76,638,729,101 shares in issue the price per share now would be many pennies lower, just as it would be if they did a 10 for 9 share split for Tuesday morning.
Flec
'' the price per share could still have been around the current 52p,''
NO NO NO NO NO - the market is valuing Lloyds at £33 Billion
Flec
''That is speculative and an unknown''
ffs - GET YOUR BRAIN INTO GEAR
''you should listen to John!
You might learn something''
I will leave that to very low IQ idiots like you DCB
J46
28 Mar 2021 18:31
''US 10 yr notes yield ~1.5% , risk free''
Painful capital depreciation.
21 Sep 2021 22:18
‘’ Major contagion a cert !’’ re evergrande in china
The world didn't come to an end
22 Feb 2022 21:49
‘’ Putin invading Ukraine will bring Lloy down to 28p .’’
It didn't happen did it.
''27 Jan 2022 16:19
''Adviceable to watch for anyone who believes in capital preservation and wanting to pick up Lloy again @ 23p''
Once again - didn't happen
22 Jan 2022 15:24
‘’ The Dow will lose + 50% from it's present peak during Biden' Presidency.
18 Nov 2020 19:51
‘’With DOW ~30k it's not investing , it's gambling !’’
The Dow is now not far off 40,000.
LTI
"ffs - Have you STILL to learn - Buybacks will increase the price per share relartive to what it would otherwise be."
That is speculative and an unknown. Lloyds could have made limited buybacks to cover the Block listings, like they did under AHO and the price per share could still have been around the current 52p, with Lloyds having a higher Market Cap. In July 2015 there were over 71 Billion shares in issue, yet the price per share was over 80p, so evidence suggests that the link between shares in issue and the stock price aren't directly correlated; Look at Rolls Royce in March 2019, there were 1.9 Billion shares in issue and the stock price was in the region of 310p, today RR have 8.4 Billion shares in issue with a share price of 426p; No doubt people will speculate that RR's prospects are so much better now, but it was only really covid that battered RR and loaded them up with more debt, effectively putting the company on its knees.
However the market decides to value shares, it doesn't appear to be based purely on the number of shares in issue, historic pricing for Lloyds and RR shares proves that.
LTI, you should listen to John!
You might learn something!
LTI ,
"it is an open market - some investors like myself like to buy stock at low valuations."
You buying lloy at 83p when market cap was £86 BN makes a mockery of above statement .
Fleecy, I'll be going for The British Workers Party myself.
They too will upset the apple cart.
The problem with Reform UK is you just get the same failed policies, with a bit of rebranding thrown in.
''to fill the void, with their share of the UK market soaring to 57.7% by the end of 2022, up from 30.7% in 1998"
it is an open market - some investors like myself like to buy stock at low valuations.
Flec
''I would argue that the share buyback's have zero impact on the price of the stock''
ffs - Have you STILL to learn - Buybacks will increase the price per share relartive to what it would otherwise be.
With 76,638,729,101 shares in issue the current price per share would be many pennies lower.
I would argue that the share buyback's have zero impact on the price of the stock, since the market's no longer appear to value stock's on fundamentals. The Government are either incompetent, or they're dancing to the tune of their masters in City; The best they can come up with is the British ISA, what a complete joke and waste of time. The Government should be pulling every lever to encourage domestic investment into UK stocks, like dropping the British ISA and raising the ISA limit on the standard ISA, but restricting ISA's to UK listed stocks only. They should also give other tax incentives for domestic institutional investment into UK stocks, but they either don't care or they're clueless.
"The reasons for this dramatic shift are multifaceted. The allure of higher returns from investments overseas has increasingly drawn investors away from the UK market. Additionally, changes in pension fund regulations have prompted a cautious move towards less risky assets, diminishing the appeal of equities generally. As domestic investors retreat from the UK market, foreign investors have stepped in to fill the void, with their share of the UK market soaring to 57.7% by the end of 2022, up from 30.7% in 1998"
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/uk-shares-lse-scm-direct-b1148409.html
You have to wonder why the Government is scared to encourage UK investors to invest in their home country, it's as if they want the UK stock market to fail.
"It’s very telling when even the pension fund for Britain's MPs and Ministers invests a mere 1.7% in UK-listed companies, which appears to indicate they do not have confidence in UK equities and companies. A catch 22 situation."
I'm voting Reform at the next Election, I'm disillusioned with both Labour and Conservative politicians, I believe the country needs a radical shakeup.
MP
'' do you know how the market cap has been impacted??''
???
the Lloyds market valuation is the market Lloyds market valuation.
The price per share based on the market valuation, will be determined by the number of shares in issue
LTI - very interesting - do you know how the market cap has been impacted??
''The current Total Voting rights are 63,716,020,308.''
Without share buybacks there would currently be 76,638,729,101 shares in issue
The UK water market is facing the same problems as the UK energy market. An industry half-run by the state, and half-run by freewheeling private corporations. Ofgem controls supply, but not retail. Ofwat controls retail pricing, but not supply. The UK has one foot in communism and one foot in capitalism. It's a complete mess.
We are now at the end game of this appalling decision
Surprise surprise it was the conservatives who came up with it
They sold something that we already owned. much like council houses the rail network and other utility providers
Conservatism does not work
Privatisation is a con
''The current Total Voting rights are 63,716,020,308.''
Without share buybacks there would currently be 76,638,729,101 shares in issue
@hooky. it would be cumulative
@MV, I get your observation about Labour reversing the tory decisions they disagree with, when labour gets into power. So how would that work. Tories privatise, go on a spending spree, Labour get into power and introduce austerity or further borrowing to fund the buyback of privatised industries. Which privatised industries would you start with? Do you really have any idea of how much it would cost to buy back all the privatised industries??? A bit of a non starter really.
One further note here on Thames water, this is a 'teaser'! So, all the other privatised water authorities will be taking notes and now realise they can pull of the same stunt, so everyone across the country can l@@k forward to a 40% price rise in their bills.
Gjohndirect73, you have questioned the data presented by hardup.
Hardup has also responded to your comments, so it would be great if you could just elaborate on why the data he has presented is incorrect, otherwise we take the date presented by hardup, as correct.