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Hi Strontium, sorry not to reply earlier, but have been travelling over to Devon today. I wrote up my notes after the AGM and they were posted here on 25th. Gibson did specifically say that the revised stack meant that the robot could not be used in its present form and this needed to be resolved. He also expressly said they had work to be be done this year on developing manufacturing.
Hi BB, did Gibson state specifically it was the manufacture of the product he was talking about, or was he actually referring to the background financial horse trading that goes on when doing a deal? I would have thought that the manufacturing agreement would be the big issue on everybody's mind at AFC considering the amount of discussion needed to thrash out an agreement acceptable to all.
Ok Bumble, lets just hope there is an update soon for shareholder sanity if nothing else.
Hi Chippy, I think we are misunderstanding each other. I am not suggesting AFC will become the manufacturing organisation for the electrodes. What I am saying is that before the new stacks can be leased to Southern somebody, be it De Nora, AFC or any other party needs to have a way of manufacturing them effectively and cheaply. Until that can be done deals cannot be signed. When Gibson was asked at the AGM what the main thing was that he to be sorted this year he said manufacturing. Comet1, that may be changes to the robot but for all we know there might be other factors too.
My point in raising this is that someone said it is just about getting a pair of electrodes to work. Well, it is more complicated than that, it needs to happen but there are a whole load of others steps that need to be sorted too, one of which is revising the manufacturing processes to produce the improved and hopefully commercial stacks. And manufacturing would need to wait until they were satisfied with the design of the stacks.
I share your disappointment with the lack of longevity update. Perhaps what we are awaiting is the PLACE update, incorporating the whole thing, and manufacturing details will feed into cost, (I speculate).
BumbleB the robot is a standard 5 axis (I think) the tooling that fits on the end of the arm would need to be redesigned for any change of component, but not a whole new robot and once new tooling is fitted a good programmer can reprogram the movements required with the teach pendant very easily.
Maybe DeNora will take charge of the robot cell and relocate it to one of there factory’s I’m sure they will have the engineers and programmers for this.
You misinterpret me bumble. It makes no sense for the R and D company to do this unless AFC plan to manufacture the cells. Not going to happen. This will be farmed out to a third party, if thats not too hard to comprehend.
Can you really see some white coats in Dunsford knocking out the stacks???
Why can’t you believe it chippyjo. The electrode design has been fundamentally changed. So to manufacture it the tools used need to change. It is not too difficult to comprehend, I don’t think. And that needs to be done whoever is responsible for manufacture.
Can't believe at this stage we'd go down the new/revised robot route. The manufacture would be much more cost effective from a dedicated third party going forward. We needed it for the proof of concept and testing but with the Denora JDA it makes little sense. I'm still very disappointed we haven't had a longevity update.
It’s possible that AFC would manufacture the first set of stacks for Southern without a long-term partner in place, I guess? Though not if it needs new expensive robots to be built for a one-off.
I would hope *
I would hope so too Notes. What would be the point in pursuing a feasibility study for supplying a product we can’t even manufacture. That would be a laughable position to be in. I would a manufacturing partner and method of manufacturing economically would be of equal priority to finalising product design.
Thanks Bumblebee......it's the logical thing to think that DeNora will be involved with manufacturing....
The robot used to assemble electrodes to make stacks. Those electrode plates have been redesigned to make electrodes that do not occasionally catastrophically fail, and to improve the flow of fluids to make them more efficient. The robot makes them cheaper to make, therefore affecting one of the PLACE metrics.
They still have to have the means to make them economically Sturm. As I understand things the old robot cannot be used with the new electrodes when making the stacks. I am not sure if there are other processes that need to be developed. It is all about cost of the final product which is of interest to AFC and Southern. Otherwise, why else would Jim Gibson have mentioned it specifically?
Bumblebee....pardon my ignorance here but wouldn't DeNora expertise and factories all around the globe take care of production once warranty is been given ?
That might be the case, but given that AFC are leasing the stacks both parties will want to be assured that they can be manufactured economically. Given that Gibson was talking openly about manufacturing needing to be sorted back in April one hopes that this situation has been shared with Southern
Could be, BB, but wouldn’t Southern want to sign the contract now whilst AFC resolve their internal production and manufacturing issues? I’d be upset if AFC were now to say sorry, we’re not quite in s position to proceed.
Could be that Iwant, but at the AGM Jim Gibson said the major outstanding work this year, apart from improving longevity, was developing manufacturing methods for the new stacks. Perhaps looking for the cheapest ways to do this, it would also delay any manufacturing agreement.
I guess the respective Boards or sub-committees need to review the results, then approve, then get the lawyers to finish it all off. There’s bound to be a bit of delay. Can’t be long!
The problem with dejà vu is we’ve seen it all before..
..assuming that AFC shuts down just before Christmas. Why do I get that deja vous feeling! So much promised news, and time running away quickly. C'mon AFC it's now or never!