Member Info for troutisout

I thought everyone was holding back to see how many shares they were going to get diluted by, now we know there still seems to be little interest. Personally I have been buying lately and have accumulated a decent size holding (especially in the context of what shares are being issued for LCCM. A lot of people felt the SP was being pushed down in March. Now was that to get more shares and if so would have taken shares to sell down the market (forward selling?) So some of the shares may have already have been sold! Or it was holders worried and forcing the price back with their own selling. What has been clear the past couple of days is to buy in any size has taken limit orders or fill or kills and so I think there is a real potential for this to move up once everyone realises 'the bogeyman' of share dilution doesn't really exist in the scale they think.

Surely that was an ISA transfer, the sell going through and the buy following with slightly less shares at a slightly higher price to cover the spread. Not everything you see in a sell or buy column is a sell or buy, some trades need a little more investigation

Can I ask whether we are double counting? You see, most of us feel that something or someone has been holding this price down. Surely to do that there must have been a short position taken. That short position is likely to be closed by the consideration shares if this is true. So why should those shares hit the market again? The other option is that investors have all sold in advance of these new shares, a risky proposition as we aren't sure the shares will be sold when they are issued. I think there is a bit of both and those investors that have sold are inadvertently posting in a negative fashion, as that is their will. However the rise the other day showed any positive movement will see some of them jump back aboard before they miss out. On the dilution, yes the SP has dropped down, but the exchange rate has also gone in SML's favour, mitigating (and possibly necessitating the SP drop).

Looking at the Annual Report, it looks like the first half of the DA CLN was paid in the last year (RNS said 16th January 2018), but definitely appearing in last year's accounts so take off �250k from the payments out below....Looks even better!

Not Johnma, But able to answer a few of your points. TERN is an investment company, it makes it's profits when it sells an investment and has ongoing costs. There are a few ways it can bill investee companies for consultancy fees, but generally the cash flow is going the other way into the companies to grow them. So profit can also be worked out on the carried value of the investments and this is generally taken from their share price or in the case of private companies their NAV, this in turn is taken from the price of the last fundraising event . As Device Authority's last one was in 2016 it is somewhat out of date, the fact it was in dollars has led to a currency translation loss this year of �0.8m. The NAV was in dollars and with the stronger pound that equals less pounds when putting it into the accounts this year. So the loss is half non cash and the other half TERN's costs for the year which included larger legal fees due to acquisitions and fundraises, as well as Management costs, etc. Cash at the end of 2017 was 273k, so far in 2018 they have raised �550k from the second CULN and another �650k from a placing, they have also paid out �125k to inVMA and loaned DA around �510k, So I reckon we have more than enough cash for the moment.

I think �36k of those 'sells' were an ISA or SIPP transfer, the trades just after 9.30am.....

dvharrison, I posted earlier elsewhere about the exchange rate working in our favour and the positive movement of the � against AS$. However do you not think some of that 13-14m shares is already being forward sold?

Do you know on Friday I probably would have agreed with you, but today, I don't.... With the placing at 2.55p there is a natural floor, but if the placee/s are selling then why would they do that at little or no profit? Especially when there were two big trades (equal to exactly half the placing) at 2.55p for the MMs to cover that position at between 3 and 3.25p..... The fact that Device Authority have taken their staff to the US two days before they are meant to be at the Excel on the shortlist to win an award, makes me think we are going to see something rather big and rather positive......So that will ultimately lead the SP movement, not any overhang....

Sweepie, You don't seem to understand, MMs have to make a two way market, there are more than just one MM. If one takes some buys one day for the price to rise, it doesn't follow that they are on the bid the next, so the bidding MM is quite within their rights to lower the bid if they don't want to buy any more at that price. MMs all make a wide market, this narrows as some are higher on the bid and others lower on the offer, at these levels 0.25p increments (which they use) this leads to big % swings. But you seem to feel there is an overhang, so what would you do if you were the MM working that sell order? Offer at 3.5p and not get any business or try 3.25p and see if you can get more buyers? You see the MMs market is not just based on historic trades but what they see from orders in front of them (be that worked orders or a block of T trades coming up to settle), yet you seem to berate them on just historic trading. As a footnote, the buying has seemed to have dried up and as such, if there is this overhang, expect them to lower the price more.

What are the fears of buyers at this time? The CULNs?? We were told there would be 4 x �550k tranches issued every 60 days, we then had 2 x �550k in quick succession . However, and I am guilty of this, I think many believe that the third will be needed for the next DA loan instalment. Please correct me if I am wrong (but allow for some licence on exchange rates taken from today and not when loans to DA made). Tranches 1 and 2 - Total of �1.1m raised (2 x �550k) used to pay for �250k investment in inVMA and loans to DA of $511k (todays exchange rate roughly �360k), so by my calculations that leaves just under half a million pounds surplus, which is more than enough to cover the second loan to DA of $360k or �256k that is due at the end of this month. So TERN are adequately covered for outgoings already and therefore do not need to draw down the third tranche at this time. If DA raise enough for first close $2.5m before the 28th, then TERN will not need to make that second payment and the investment in inVMA is covered by the cash in bank. There will be working capital costs but suddenly the chances of all the remaining CULNs being needed are looking much shorter. There could be quite a nice respite for a while here and if DA do come up with funding then we will be covered up until end of July and the next instalment for inVMA. Again those sort of funds could be raised through a small placing. I think I have all the costs and income correct and if so I apologise as I was under the impression the third tranche would be needed for the Feb 28th instalment to DA and it doesn't look like that at all. :o)

The problem LSE had with their trade feeds means a lot of yesterday's trades aren't showing up, the big missing trade is a 1.9m Buy at 2.6p, at just after Midday, which has been reported by John Mahtani to be one of his friend's purchases. Slowly but surely the CULN overhang gets smaller....

I think they released that RNS to state clearly the closing date of the USCP fundraise 22nd Feb, when taken with this from the 28/12/2017 RNS, ""The remaining 50% will be payable on 28 February 2018 if a qualified investment of at least USD$2.5 million has not been secured by DA at that time." Are they highlighting this for a reason? Also they cleverly state that the raise would automatically renew on a monthly basis (You have to have a plan B), but they say that they don't expect to issue another RNS until it closes (wouldn't they have to issue one if it didn't reach close and renewed??) Maybe I am reading too much into it, but they don't normally give us any information and this RNS seems to want to hint at something.

Well on that RNS, I would say indifferent was the best description, with very little new News. Two things of note though was the blockchain reference something the rampers have been wanting pushed up the agenda and the DA rollout, which is suffering from delays and lack of real earning contracts (the one announced is about a third of one of the CULN tranches. So will DA continue to struggle to raise funds through USCP ? I believe they will and will have to come up with an alternative route to funding (the recent loan notes to existing DA investors is a short term stop gap and something else will be needed). There is nothing in that update for us to beliieve the CULNs will not have to continue and with the second half of the second tranche due to drop on the market soon and the second TERN payment to DA in just over a months time, I do now see all 4 tranches being used. That is a massive shame as I think they could have got a less dilutive placing away to the market through Primary Bid, however as PIs cover the CULNs by buying in the market the chances of raising money from them diminishes...

Why? As people don't know what will be in the presentation and with the history of this Company not really giving that much away, it could be good, bad or the most likely indifferent..... The fact that a few holders are trying to convince people it will be good, is not enough, people will judge by their own eyes and ears. So will wait. The other thing that we do know is happening is the other �275k CULN needs converting, with 2.75p the lowest bid, that would be 10m shares and it looks like they too, are waiting for tomorrow.

3 weeks in and now lecturing the long termers..... Cannons, while others were trading above you were you cleaning the changing rooms in the gym?

I suggest they may be the same person and therefore not a new investor as your header suggests.

Do you actually think before you post? The second instalment to inVMA of £250k would have seen TERN's holding in inVMA rise to 25%. from 12.5% They have only paid half of the instalment so their holding has gone up half (6.25%) making their total holding 18.75% I should imagine they are not very impressed with TERN who are very late and not putting down the full instalment, but I suggest inVMA need TERN so they just have to accept it.

Well we got our update.... They haven't reached first close yet! However TERN have now got a convertible loan in place and that not only covers TERN's investment and working capital plans, but also allowed them to loan $150k to DA (as part of a $300k loan). USCP is still ongoing.....I know they had raised a certain amount from a lead investor last month but still don't seem to have got to the $2.5m mark. However the buyer yesterday wanted those shares and quickly and paid a premium in the market for them (very rare for TERN dealings). My take is this is positive TERN have committed to the first �550k so that is already done and the conversion price decided. That money gives them enough to fund DA loan and working capital for a good while and with more available will mean end of year accounts can be signed off and there will be no funding worries going into the Christmas period.

Some decent volume today with a large delayed buy being filled in the market around lunchtime. We have seen some other big buys recently 2.75m the other day and lots of smaller buy clips to fill a 2.25m sell trade. I can't help thinking that wouldn't be happening if those people felt they could approach the Company first and buy shares in a fundraising. So looking very positive from here. Also note the date tomorrow and the news at the end of last month, might we get another update on USCP financing this week? We need to see the buying momentum continue and the SP rise some more, above and close above the high of earlier this month would be the first step. Then onto the long term downtrend, which isn't much higher than that level. Is it too early for a breakout???

Breton, I agree with you about the fund raise and clearing the ground first. However as stated this isa strange type of fund raise and was always slated to take up to 120 days to totally close. TERN were the only ones to state the 30 day period until first close. That was their own goal. They haven't lost a Director as they took on Richard Turner in the same role as AF, AF then left. The amount of Directors hasn't changed and the fact AF was of an older generation perhaps doesn't fit in with the IoT cutting edge they seem to want to tread. AF also carried with him a lot of negative baggage and that has cost TERN dear. I would warrant that investors don't really understand the sector at all, it is in it's infancy and the only ones that really do understand are those developing within the sector. Unfortunately everyone has the next best thing and so won't be seen investing in someone else's next best thing. The big boys will be trying out many of these next best things to see which they want to use, Device Authority seems to have passed the first few hurdles and now will be seeing revenues come in from some f these big boys. 'Investors' should look forward, but perhaps is waiting to see results first, at one pint the pivot will be reached and the market will start to look ahead. TERN itself has too many retail investors and this skews the SP hugely. Institutions aren't going to invest until they reach some sort of critical mass, so at the moment we are bobbing along at the behest of the currents, which at the moment seems to be going out.