Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Aandi - you've got to watch what you put into your pension! the £40K Annual Allowance includes what you pay into your company pension, what your company pays into your company pension, what AVC's you pay into and what you pay into your SIPP, if you have one. Exceed the £40K per year on that lot and HMRC will penalise you but, more importantly, if EQT does an ITM or any other large increase and your resulting pension exceeds your Lifetime Allowance because your SIPP has exploded, then you will be penalised for that too - as soon as you try to drawdown your pension! Speaking from bitter experience of having done just that!!
Agree Bilboburger - I believe the backlog is around £120M just enough for a few months work in the old factory, it now needs masses of new orders to fill the new factory to 80% production and justify all the investment that's been put into it. I'm fairly certain it will happen, it's just that the new orders have been kept under wraps, I hope, but it's the odd uncertainty that worries me! Remember what happened to that other big Yorkshire prospect, where people poured their pension savings into it because of the hype - thousands of new jobs for Yorkshire, Biggest in the world etc - Sirius Minerals - although I got out of that just in time, virtually unscathed, many didn't and lost out to the big conglomerate takeover at a few pennies per share! Maybe this signed MOU will result in those new orders but there's no sign of them yet. With the factory due to open very soon, where are they?
I agree with bilboburger and SharpEye52w that there is indeed a lack of visible Sales & Marketing and that is where I worry that, although ITM may be technologically sound and well advanced and ready to perform, they may be in danger of capsizing the boat, publicity wise, and will need an extraordinary amount of bailing to get back on track. Regarding partnerships, and Bellers remark, partners have been known to take the tiller and mutiny to take over the sinking ship to right it and carry on sailing!
Thanks Sharpeye52W, that link was a real eyeopener! Given the amount of reporting of really advanced H2 technology progress throughout the world, one wonders if ITM is resting on its laurels from the past and hoping that, when the new factory is officially declared open and ready for business, the world will come flocking to them to build their electrolysers. It's starting to remind me of the fable of the Tortoise and the Hare, with ITM being the Hare! Maybe Smithy is right - take as much profit as you can, when you can and buy back in when the price is low enough! Come the takeover, whether it be from Shell, BP or Linde, the projected " Tesla Killer" will be no more!
It can't possibly be a low key announcement in the next few days! This has got to be a BIG HIGH PROFILE EVENT!! Surely someone Internationally known for their commitment to cleaning the environment will have been invited to perform the Formal Opening Ceremony - I mean the biggest factory of its kind in the world, surely needs this type of exposure!! Wave the flags for Sheffield, the Shiny City, and the UK - at the forefront of the Hydrogen Technology!!
I totally agree, toneman. The problem currently is that the hydrogen renewables market is sort of like a youngster just entering teens where everyone is vying to be top dog but they're all singing from the same sheet. Nobody is really standing out yet but the majority are going to be good, some will achieve greatness and one will stand out above all others, eventually. My fear, currently, is that Big Oil will start to mop up the good ones who are having cash flow problems, at below market prices and bring them into their fold as their own product lines dry up - leaving us poor investors scratching our heads wondering what happened to our nest eggs!
Hi 1LEO, Of the renewables - definitely ITM - I have retrieved my original investment plus about £20K profit and still have a very substantial holding there!
Re Patents etc - I have drilled down through the company accounts for the last two years and can find no mention anywhere of revenues from licences etc, so presumably they are using their patents to protect their technology. All of which makes me wonder, with so many other companies, worldwide, now producing Hydrogen and/or Electrolysers, what exactly is different about ITM's offering and why are they and their partners so sure they are going to be market leaders in the long term! Strangely, some of the US media seem to have stopped calling ITM - the Tesla Killers and are now tending to give that title to a US based Fuel Cell manufacturer! Only time will tell!
I only discovered ITM at the back end of 2019, mainly as a result of losing a significant amount of capital in Sirius Minerals and looking to find somewhere local to Yorkshire, I actually live in Sheffield, where I could invest money to a company that had a substantial pathway to profitability. I managed to secure some shares at 70p. Having done a considerable amount of research into the company before I actually invested - having had my fingers burned in the past companies like Torotrak - I decided rightly or wrongly that ITM was going to be a significant figure in the Renewables Industry. One of the things that impressed me was the fact that ITM had started operating in 2001 and in an interview with the CEO in 2014 it was stated that ITM's technology was sufficiently Globally Patented. There are 2 things a company can do with Patents 1). They can hold on to their patents and thus prevent other companies from copying their technology or 2) They can licence their technology and obtain significant Royalties from other companies use of their technology.
It would be interesting to discover if ITM Power have used the second method to ensure a continual funding source throughout the life of the patent. I'm sure that by digging down into the annual financial reports this can be determined. I had forgotten about all this until my current discussion with bilboburgler. While it may be possible to determine royalties received, is it possible to discover where the royalties, if any, are coming from i.e. which companies, worldwide, are licensed to use the patented ITM Technology? This could be an eye opener as some of the companies may be viewed as potential competition to ITM but would also be benficial to ITM! What say y'all?
Thanks for that, bilboburgler, I have spent much of my life, from Mid 60s to the late 90s consulting, designing and implementing Production and Inventory Management Systems - both manual and computerised - in various countries in the Far East, Middle East and Europe and I agree with you that the Sales and Projects side of businesses make most money but that without full support from the Operational type Business, the Sales and Projects may well fail, if they can't deliver. ITM seem to be well ahead on the Operational side and the opening of the new factory should consolidate their position in the field. However they haven't been resting on their manufacturing laurels as others in the industry are climbing on board with them. Interestingly - an extract from NEL's CEO showed that NEL have many projects, in the pipeline, which were too small to publicise with an RNS and their order book is currently around NOK1Billion. Might the same be true of ITM? I think probably so. Sure, they have built up partnerships with the likes of Linde, Itawana and Shell but they will have other projects of their own which have slipped under the radar of the RNS. I seem to remember somewhere on the south coast where they supplying electrolysers to a working harbour facility, that stopped during the previous lockdown, and I am sure there are many more! We just have hope and wait and see!
Not sure what you mean by that, bilboburger, In my view the H2 industry will soar with ITM out in front because they got into their market early, ahead of so called competition from overseas. ITM is globally recognised as a leader in the production of Electrolysers and H2! if my conflicts with the the ethos of this site the I apologise and will not post here any more.
It doesn't look as if PLUG, with their acquisitions of United Hydrogen and Giner ELX will be able to compete with ITM and its USA Partnerships until after 2022 as they won't have completed the building of their first 2, out of 5, projected Green Hydrogen Plants. They are currently unable to meet the needs of their two major customers - Amazon and Walmart - with their current capacity and, even with their latest acquisitions , will barely succeed in meeting all of their current customer needs. The remaining Hydrogen Plants are not envisaged to be completed before the end of 2024 by which time they envisage the 5 plants to be producing 100 tons of Hydrogen per day to meet their customers needs.
ITM should be well advanced by the end of 2022 both in Europe and in USA through its partnerships, with Linde and Itawana, and probably won't consider PLUG to be a competitor as they will be in different marketplaces!
I don't see how PLUG can be a major competitor to ITM as they don't make Electrolysers to produce Hydrogen. They make Fuel Cells and Fuel Cell Systems - see this extract from their Company Info! In fact they are probably complimentary to ITM especially in the USA!
Plug Power Inc. is a provider of alternative energy technology focused on the design, development, commercialization and manufacture of hydrogen fuel cell systems used for the industrial off-road market and the stationary power market. The Company's product line includes GenKey, GenDrive, GenFuel, GenCare and ReliOn.
Whis why EDF Bought UK startup Pivot Power who have now placed an order with a Finnish to install 10Mw Battery Storage facilities in UK - check out https://www.wartsila.com/media/news/25-02-2020-pivot-power-an-edf-renewables-company-places-order-with-wartsila-for-100-mw-of-energy-storage-in-uk-2648771
Hargreaves Lansdown say you can buy them (plus any extra) in an ISA or a SIPP provided your original holding is in that account. If you are over 75 years old and you want to buy extra in a SIPP then you have to declare a Gross contribution as you won't qualify for the HMRC top up!