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tyranny by the majority so ..... sounds very clever
Was there two delays with APEC?:
- the first, concerning which we were not informed of ..... in the months during the lengthy permission procedure
- the second when apparently it was swallowed up in some kind of banking black hole ....
The fact that there was a long delay prior to the banking delay ..... slightly throws the doubt on the banking delay explanation .....
Believe it or not I am in Brussels for the week . .... not on Brexit business I might add .... !!
Anovas,
I too think the money will arrive by the end of the month ... at least that is what my instinct tells me ....
But unfortunately even if it does we are far from out of the fire ....
The SP is where it is because the company is failing repeatedly to deliver despite having access to what appears to be good assets... and the SP will only move upwards when the company starts to deliver ....
what is said on this or any other Board is irrelevant I would think to 99% of investors ...... so don t worry about all the negativity ... if PVR starts to do what it is meant to ... investors will follow and the SP will take care of itself
Hope all is good in Malta
Regards
Sir N
Perhaps Bronze age man should be ashamed of the mess that is PVR today after endless years of what you probably consider to be his "bad luck" .... but which at some stage has to seen as incompetence ......£7 - 5p .... and three million in wages collected during this slide ....
the chap appears to be gifted .... OK as to be paid that mount of money to oversee losses of that scale is truly an achievement ... whilst keeping his job even when the Board has to go out into the market to hire more people actually capable of running the company further exaggerating the already unfathomably large running costs (unfathomable until you see the wage packets on offer for the chaps .... and now more dilution to pay their redundancy costs .... you could not invent it!
Surely APEC are liable for any losses (costs) resulting from their failure to comply with their contractual obligation to transfer the cash .. which would be why they asked them not to go ahead with it ...
It is an executory contract .. i.e. consideration was based on future performance by APEC of the contract and PVR s rights in the context of non payment should be clearly spelt out in in the contract with a materiality clause ..style, "Payment of the funds - This is a material obligation under the contract and failure to respect its terms will allow the other party to terminate the contract and seek damages as owing " ... They also should have had and maybe they do a "liquidated Damages Clause (LD) .. providing for the payment of a "penalty" (although it is not called that) for each day of non-payment of the funds ....
Once you know the content of the contract then you have to think about the applicable law and more importantly the applicable jurisdiction ..... of course we know absolutely nothing about this all we know the extent of PVRs rights are defined in the agreement and if not specified will ultimately be determined by the jurisdiction they chose to apply the agreement in the case of a dispute .....
there are different ways to get a pizza (Bronzeman could have even cooked it himself) and if you are using other people s money to buy it ... presumably you will choose a reputable pizzeria ... of course everyone can make mistakes ... but some people do appear to have made more than their fair share ...... its a good few pizzas that have not been delivered now .... yet the deliveryman keeps his position and interestingly getting paid .... I am not sure the analogy flies .... as of course the whole thing is far more complicated than that .... however certainly there are probably a few people who would prefer to see Bronze on a bike delivering pizzas as opposed to overseeing what must rank as an outstanding sp crash .... I wonder how many other companys have lost so much value and yet kept faith with their pizza man
yes it depends on the contract and the applicable jurisdiction for disputes... if it is the Chinese courts forget about it ... if it is arbitration ... we don t have the cash or the time for either in reality .... the issue is we know absolutely nothing ... about anything .... maybe they will proceed with the survey and sue Apec for payment afterwards .. ..
presumably they got a decent law firm to do their contract ...but having a written agreement ensuring performance of an obligation and enforcing it are unfortunately two different things ....
Not sure Anovas would agree with that Phoebus!
Interestingly PVR by declaring they are out of money are expressly revealing a weakness for some reason ... Bronzeman normally only talks in positives also ... did HBSC say the money was in the system .... if so it is .....perhaps they did not?
This is a highly peculiar situation ... major bank confirms engagement with transfer process ... first cousin of major company with cash coming out its ears ... signs deal and refuses to come up with what in reality in the context is peanuts .... why .... PVR reveals that if it does not get money it has none ..... ergo goes to the veritable wall .... and otherwise releases no information or details of the transaction or as regards other options should the money not come thru and continues to extend deadline without revealing the real character of assurances that makes it PVR after a number of months of failure to pay that this is not a simple case of breach of contract (but of course no real details on the contract to know if there was a binding obligation to pay advance in any and all circumstances, if there was a good faith clause etc ....) instead vague reference to a potential legal action .... Even for PVR s this is a level of non transparency in the circumstances of a preceding SP fall from £7 to 5p that is frankly hard to believe and a bit hard to take .....
the real question is why is the company publicly saying it has no more cash and what happened to the cash it had ........ it certainly is a set of circumstances the effect of which is to drive the SP to the floor ....
I agree with the Spanish chap and Anovas .... personally I think people are taking positions and although not ideal momentum (not the labour kind) is still with us ....
True the bronze baby should have fallen on his sword or dropped his remuneration package severely but he didn t .... but at the moment he is being held out to dry by his own regulatory authorities .... hard to believe someone out there doesn t have a line to these guys ..... what s their game ?
It is difficult to believe the slowness of the Irish authorities on this ... they are effectively taking the company out through their refusal to act ..... which is unforgivable ...as I understand people are being made unemployed whilst these people are twiddling something and covering their behind s
as for the money Rock I d agree with you and if people tend to emphasize your change of mind it maybe linked to your previous abrasive rejection of their opinions ..... just an observation not an attack ...!
I said exactly the same thing two days ago Rock and you told me I knew nothing about business etc .....
What can it mean ?
N
The most surprising thing is that mamms made a less than positive comment about the Tanned baby and "Anovas" did not immediately write in support of our "poor" embattled leader ...
now that is surprising ...
In my humble opinion the money transfer couldn’t possibly take so long so either:
- there is an issue with the cash which I don t believe and the documentation supplied would seem to support this;
- PVR and APEC are using it and the endless rns to push the EIRE climate people to issue their decision against the backdrop that of course no one would transfer money for a project for which the permission is still outstanding ....
this appears obvious to me (as in I wouldn’t transfer the money .... ) and I don t see why the Chinese would .... I am sure The Suntan not unreasonably told them at the time it was a given .... so now they are saying show us the permission and we ll show you the cash ....
How long more do we have to wait for this permission!
N
PVR and their CEO disappoint yet again .....
but don t worry the salaries keep coming in month after month .... for what I really don t know ...
Buy the house and flip it!
In fact I wished to say that protesting against home produced oil/gas so that it has to be subsequently imported is intellectually dubious ....
but realise it probably sounded I was saying the opposite ... probably because mistakenly I was .....
but nice explanation ... thank you for taking the time ... it sounds like we all need an article 17.2 advisor ...
I wish I had one when I decided that no matter how bad PVR were the extent of the opportunity at their finger tips would prevent them from ruining it ..... to use your example
"no matter how attractive PVRs resources look ... don t touch it as you will go broke"!
it is above all intellectually dubious ....don t know anything about the Irish constitution !
well that should be that ....sounds rational
If the Chinese don t pay it will because their contract reserves them that right (as they were in a sufficiently dominant position to negotiate an "ou"t I am sure) and so there is no real liability for the company I suspect ... as always there has been minimum communication but that is because every day is a challenge for PVR and it is always smoke and mirrors with them .... and fundamental governance issues as you say ... enough to sue management? and even if you did what would you get?
The worrying thing is that whether thru bad management or just market reality ... (probably thru over playing their hand immediately post Barryroe) PVR are always in a corner and not in control of anything and LOGP is even in a worse position ...
however as long as PVR s interests and those of the Chinese remain aligned there is no problem ..... as long as the money is not transferred we do not have confirmation of that alignment and the failure to transfer it can be read as proof of a potential change in alignment ..... ergo the drop in SP I suppose....
Perhaps by the 14th the Chinese will have received unofficial regulatory guarantees ... you have to think the Chinese are capable of getting someone their end to pick up the phone to ask someone on the Irish end for a statement as to where this is going .....
there is a flux of competing interests but my uninformed reading of it is that it will come good ... if it doesn't PVR and Irish oil (in the Celtic Sea at least) are more or less dead .... ... I just feel the Irish regulatory authorities will think twice before doing that ..... and so the permission will issue ....
but we live in strange times and the present Tory leadership race .... is all the confirmation we need of that !
the only other worry is ...if Barryroe is so good why did it take so long to to find a suitor and an unusual one at that ... so in the context of the Chinese not transferring the money that issue indirectly pops up again as well ..... adding more worry ...
Good luck with it Mamms ... .. perhaps I am trying to convince myself !!