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Pearls, I agree, that was my point, no need to worry about the "value" of an existing Machin collection, just because of Royal Mail's devaluation of pre-barcode stamps. And if you do have a large number of spare Machins in hand which were just bought for postage, you still have a year to use them up, or swap with Royal Mail themselves. Same with older commemoratives, it would be nice to be able to continue to use them on mail, but no doubt RM will clarify this when the "swap scheme" forms are available.
As to RM saturating the market with endless irrelevant new issues, with all the add-ons of fancy prestige books, miniature sheets, various covers, presentation packs, etc., just to swell their profits with no regard to "real" collectors or philatelists, that's another matter. As you say in the earlier post, it could increase the interest in earlier scarcer material......or it could just put people off starting the hobby altogether.......
Reading about the Royal Mail "digital stamps", it would appear that the barcodes only apply to definitive stamps, the old ones of which can be swapped for the barcoded ones from March this year to 31st Jan 2023 by means of a form and Freepost arrangement ? Commemorative stamps will not have barcodes and remain valid (I think???).
I like to use commemorative stamps on my mail (bought cheaply via Ebay, etc. ), but my only relevant collecting interest is Machin Decimal Definitives from 1971 to 2000, 99% complete to the specialist depth which I will ever want to collect, and all bought at face value at the time of issue. A few would now probably be worth more than face value to a specialist collector, but I've no reason to disturb the collection....I'll just need to use up (or swap with Royal Mail) any spares or duplicates which I don't want.
(Apologies if a bit OT.)
My fingers were all thumbs when I made an incorrect post on Tuesday regarding advertisers in the daily press offering nicely packaged sets of pre-decimal stamps, coins and covers of little intrinsic value, but intended to be attractive as collectors' items or souvenirs of royal and historic occasions. It is noticable that the sellers never make any reference to investment value or prospects, obviously to keep within the financial advertising rules, and surely SG will have to be very careful if they start to push the investment side ?
As in any financial advertising, surely SG will have to be very careful in advertising any "investment potential" ? There are large adverts from time to time in daily newspapers offering attractively packaged Penny Blacks, pre-decimal GB sets, coins and covers. Probably of little value in themselves, but nice collectors' items for anyone who likes them. However, the sellers seem very careful not to keep within the rules, and not mention any investment value or potential.
8622 sold, just 71,378 to go. Let's have a look in a month's time ?
No, not "100% sold in one day". 100% of 8.000 yes.....but this is just 10% of 80,000. So 72,000 still to sell, and now at no discount ?
From Thisismoney.com:-
"Stanley Gibbons is setting up a trading website where collectors can buy and sell their fractions. It will take a cut of any trades – perhaps as much as 10 per cent – although website dealing might not be possible until spring next year. This initial lack of a secondary market obviously means it is not suitable for those hoping to make a quick profit." 10% commission?
From buyer or seller, or both ? And you need willing buyers who have not been able to get the number of shares which they want in the initial offer ?
Pearls - 100% by 9 am tomorrow ? But 100% of how many.....certainly not of the 80,000 total ?
Clued - 1960'd and 1970's (and later) GB issues are of negligible value. A collector freind told me he had soaked off all the stamps from his FDC's, as he said it was the best way to get sets of "fine used". And GB decimal issues can be easily bought in bulk for significantly less than face value, to use for cheap postage (any decimal issues post-1971 are still valid). Over-promoted by Royal Mail at the time, and this is still the case for new issues, far too expensive to attract "pocket-money"
junior or casual collectors
But only 83% of the "Early Access Goal", not of the 80,000. I can't see where this "Goal" is stated anywhere as an actual number of proprotion of the eventual total offer, but the "bar scale" only seems to show very a small proportion ? Perhaps a bit of salesman's talk "buy now and avoid disappointment" ? LOL
I'm becoming quite intrigued as to the success or otherwise of the Maganta offer.
A price of £100 would seem to, possibly, restrict this to older collectors with this amount to spare, just at this moment, and sufficient interest to put this amount at risk (maybe as opposed to spending it on a nice specimen for their own particular collection). Are there 80,000 of such collectors about ?
A pure investor would (just as we all do before we invest in any company) look at the history, current and projected future prospects of the company and its activities, a comparison with competitors, any likely economic and political influences on its future activities, maybe any take-over prospects, the record of its management, the marketability and spread of its shares, dividend record, what we might loose (and stop-loss) if things don't work out as we hope) etc., etc.
"Shares" in the Maganta offer none of these to consider ?
Regarding the offer excluding under-18's .....maybe some legal reason why minors can't participate ? It is sometime perfectly possible to invest for children and grandchildren under 18, as I have modestly done for two of ours. But, if I want to encourage my kids into collecting, giving them a share in this stamp (if possible) would not interest them in the slightest.....OTOH, a cheap album, a packet of 1,000 "all-world assorted" and a packet of hinges, would (and has) kept them happy for hours... and no worries or loss if it all eventually gets shoved in a drawer to be replaced by the next interest. LOL
ChiefStamper ....I wasn't trying to be overharsh or overpessimistic in my last post, but the loss of all 6 stamp/philatelic clubs in my area ( a market town about 8 miles from a substantial city) is a FACT. Likewise my six grandchildren's views of their Papa's eccentricities.
Maybe philately will continue in the long term as a very minority passtime. Rather like matchbox label collecting and cheese label collecting, which I am sure are still enjoyed. (Or even collecting unusual and vintage electricity wall plugs....yes, it does exist). But none of these interests are likely to make any collectors, investors or dealers rich ?
Totally true, PearToDaMoon, I can recall 5 or 6 stamp clubs/philatelic societies within 10 or 15 miles drive from here, now none, SFAIK. (And, even about 20 years ago, members were then mostly retired guys (no youngsters or ladies).
Even our grandkids think it a bit quaint when we send a real Birthday Card (what's wrong with Facebook, or whatever,
Papa ?) and completely fail to notice any commemorative stamps we might use !
"From the Showpiece site:
"Will I be able to sell my pieces at a later date?
We want to provide as much flexibility as possible to members of Showpiece. With this in mind, we plan to launch a marketplace within 6 months of our first item being made available for purchase. This will provide owners with the ability to purchase and sell pieces if you so wish."
At what spread and/or commission ??
Just meditating while drinking morning coffee, and looking at the whole Magenta stamp proposal impartially, it really seems to come down to a scheme to "sell air" to "collectors" or "investors", and collects lots of £100'ses with little prospect or promise of any monetary profit, return, or other benefit for these investors.
As investors, we all know that we take a risk when buying any shares, but we make our judgement from public information on the company involved, its future prospects, the economy in general, the liquidity of the shares and all the other things.
The Maganta is a constucted investment scheme, and I wonder for who's benefit this is ? I'm reminded of, a few years ago, I invested a few £1,000's "fun money" in one of the then-available schemes to finance a movie film, fully knowing that less than 1 in 10 movies make back their costs. But Mrs Railwaylady and I had several days out, visiting the set, meeting the "stars" (two from tv), couple of champagne parties, a "premiere" (not quite West-end, but you could always pretend!) and a dvd of the film. All promised in the Prospectus, and the promotors delivered on their promises. The film didn't make any money, but after two lots of tax-relief at 40% each, the net cost of a few £100's was actually good value just for the novelty and interest ! And the movie itself wasn't that bad ! )
(And, as has been said, if you have £100 to spare, you can always buy a nice example of a Penny Black, enjoy it in your collection, and, when you're ready, sell it on in an established collectors' market, probably with very little loss.)
" Showpiece makes the rarefied world of collecting these types of treasures an affordable pleasure open to anyone, not just the wealthy. "
What is the point ? Ihave modestly collecting stamps, since I was a schoolboy, and know that many expensive examples will never be affordable to me (and not of any interest). But why own a bit of paper saying that I "own" an infinitely small bit of this grubby and unattractive stamp, I can't even see it without a trip to London, I can never handle or study it and the "share" has no intrinsic value.
Some of the stamps which I bought for sixpence with pocket money are still in my collection, stuck down with glue, grubby and well-handled before I'd heard of tweezers, but these are the treasures to me.......
An article in this week's "Money Week" (10th Sept) concerning the BG stamp and fractional ownership schemes. Mostly a recap of the announcements and plans so far, but a few quotes :-
"The total value of the shares (in the stamp) will amount to £8m, handing SG a theoretical profit of £1.9m if all the shares were to be sold".
"Should SG go under (and the loss-making dealer has certainly had a rough time of it of late, with sales falling 18% in the year to March 2021 from the previous 12 months), ownership and voting rights would be "completely unaffected". Any resulting sale of the stamp would be at the behest of the shareholders, who no doubt would be hoping to make a tidy profit.
That would depend on the market in collectable stamps rising, of course, which, with 64% growth in the decade to 2020, has lagged behind most collectable assets, including handbags, classic cars and whisky".
"Note, too, that at present there are no plans to create a secondary market for shares in the stamp, so holders would face a challenge if they wanted to sell them. Fractional ownership schemes also smack of the holiday timeshare schemes of the past which....have led to "heavy losses" despite flourishing in asset bubbles".
We must form our own opinions.
(Acknowledgements to "Money Week".)
"
I doubt that "everyone was collecting stamps during lockdown". Perhaps just a very small increase as people dug out old collections, as probably there was in a lot of side-line hobbies. But not enough to translate into a great boost for any business..
If present ideas fail, we might get a sale of the SG business at a knock-down price, perhaps to one of the other big dealers or auction houses. SG must still have some goodwill or reputation for its auctions, catalogues and magazine, but, TBH, I don't think it would be, even now, the first place the average hobby collector would turn to for their purchases; there are plenty of other reliable dealers, usually at better prices.
Yes, Pearls, but my point is that collectors'/philatelists' interest is in collecting and studying physical stamps, covers and other postal history items, not NFT's or "shares" in something intangible. Investment in stocks and shares and other items is a completely different pastime or interest. Nothing that SG does will change that. They should, as Hamilton13 says, "keep to their knitting" and do what they know rather than invent artificial constructs.
The real risk is that, most probably, "stamp collecting" is a declining interest in the longer term as hobbyists get older, other modern pastimes are more attractive for younger people, and stamp issuing authorities and countries (incuding Royal Mail) saturate the market with expensive pretty-colored labels. Maybe SG's core business will become obsolescent ?
As a bit of a collector/hobbyist/philatelist over the years, I cannot see any justification for buying "a share" in the BG stamp.....
I can't study it, or even look at it, without a day in London.
I can't show it to my friends or other collectors. (My friends would think it confirmed that I really am gaga.)
There is no indication of any buy-back guarantee from SG.
There is no market of any kind for the re-sale of shares.
There is no obvious likelihood of any future prospects of a profit as an investment medium.
OTOH, if I purchase a good quality example of, say, a GB Victorian stamp....
I can study it myself , or with other collectors.
There is an established market for resale, via dealers, other collectors, auctions or even Ebay.
There are established catalogues (even SG's own) as an indication of current values.
While there are no guarantees of investment prospects, philatelists are usually more interested in the pleasures of collecting and studying. OTOH, good collections often don't lose too much value when the time comes to sell (and what hobbies don't cost some money...).
@LittleCrumb - you apologise for having said "GR, who's in his 70'S. dob Oct 1948" ?
Am I being dim, but I was born in 1948, and, sadly, am definitely into my 70's ? (Not quite ready to to be put out to grass yet, but, there again, I'm not trying to run a public company..... )