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Dr Needle: In terms of appliances in homes, the research programme
Hy4Heat that has been running for some time has not just looked at
boilers. It has looked at cookers and fires. It has looked at commercial
boilers. There are also CHP engines. You can buy a hydrogen CHP engine
today if you want to. From a technology point of view, on the things that
use natural gas today, the research is going on into whether they can be
effectively converted into hydrogen. For some of them it is quite simple
to change the burner and things like that.
We have done the work on whether the odorant is the same. You may
not know that we put an odorant into the system so you can smell the
natural gas. It is something we have to put into the network. That still
works with hydrogen. We also know what colour flame it burns with and
whether you can see it. We often get asked questions about what it looks
like. People say that hydrogen burns with a clear flame and that is a
safety issue. Hydrogen burns with an orange flame, and you can
reconfigure your appliances so that you can see the flame. There is a lot
of work going on.
It is key for me that this work has happened because the Government
has asked for innovation in this space. If you put in place the strategy on
hydrogen and you set some goals of what we want to achieve, there
would be significantly faster paced innovation in this space. That is a bit
about other uses of hydrogen.
"In terms of distribution innovation, we have a full programme across the
gas distribution side of things. There are not many gaps in that that we
are not addressing. There are some extra things we are looking at in
addition to that. One of those is whether we could use the distribution
network to transport hydrogen for fuel cells. As soon as you put hydrogen
at one end of the distribution network, it does not come out the other end
quite as pure as it needs to be for use in a fuel cell—I will pass over to
Nigel in a moment—because we put odorant and things in there.
I would like innovation in technology to clean hydrogen from a
distribution network so that we can therefore send it to wherever it needs
to go in the country using the existing infrastructure rather than
inventing another way of transporting hydrogen.
Professor Brandon: On energy storage and system balancing, I am
sure Angie will want to comment as well, and Richard can also comment
on this. If you look at future energy systems, they are characterised by
the greater need for flexibility. The energy system we have today moves
very large amounts of energy as natural gas and in fact has the largest
flows through the UK energy system to date by far as natural gas. That
has this strong seasonality aspect that Angie has mentioned, with
massive demands in the winter months and much lower demands in the
summer months. The flow of energy as electricity through the UK system
today is relatively modest. It is the smallest in energy terms. Then, in the
middle, is energy flows through the system as gasoline and diesel.
So if we choose to transition to a low-carbon system that is built around
renewables with its intermittency and to some extent its seasonality and
certainly diurnal cycles on solar and the risk of winter lows in energy from
wind, we are going to think about how we balance supply and demand
and we have to think about how we balance it across multiple timeframes
from fractions of a second through to, potentially, weeks. There are a
range of technologies and things we might think about. Batteries and
battery-related technologies will have a role to play.
But if we want to store energy for several weeks to back up the UK
system if we have a reliance on offshore wind and we get frequent lows
in wind energy in February when the winds stop blowing, at the very time
when we have our maximum energy demand in the UK because it is the
winter season, we will have to have some strategic reserves of energy for that. Do we do that with natural gas, which is what we would do today?
Would we back that up with a fairly low-efficiency open-cycle fastresponse gas plant? That is how we would do it today. But that does not
address the carbon issue.
Can we also do it with large storage of hydrogen? The storage of
hydrogen in underground caverns sounds like science fiction, but we do it
today. It is a mature technology. We do it for a different reason: to
provide strategic reserves of hydrogen for petrochemical facilities. The
British Geological Survey has done quite a lot of work looking at the
potential for underground hydrogen storage in the UK. It is significant. It
is at the level at which you could deliver those long-term strategic energy
stores. That is one type of role for hydrogen.
"I think the current gas network can be repurposed for hydrogen. We are
confident that, technically, that can be achieved. In comparison to the
amount of infrastructure investment in electrification, it is seen as a
sensible way of carrying energy, and it is something that consumers have
already paid for. You are going to have to have investment in
electrification because the electricity mains are going to have to be
upgraded, and we are going to have to do some extra things to
repurpose the current gas distribution network. If you are moving all the
energy that we current provide in gas to electricity, that would cost a lot
more to upgrade.
"Then when you come into the home—let’s say we can get hydrogen into
the home—what needs upgrading in the home? Through the BEIS work
already on the Hy4Heat programme, they have been working with boiler
manufacturers. This is innovation in action. There is a piece of work going
out that says, “What aspects of hydrogen in the home do we need to
think about?” Worcester Bosch and Baxi have already gone, “We can
make a hydrogen-ready boiler.” The expectation at the moment is that if
we know that hydrogen is feasible in people’s homes and we know we
can make sufficient hydrogen, there will be a transition over time. In
terms of the natural recycle rate of condensing boilers, or the exchange
rate, we currently upgrade at—1.6 million boilers a year are sold—if you
imagine you can have a hydrogen-ready boiler that can work on methane
today, up to a 20% blend of hydrogen and on 100% hydrogen when theconversion happens, that customer who is just buying a new boiler is
going to buy a new boiler anyway
"Amanda Lyne: Yes, there were a couple of things. You were talking
about the energy density. Hydrogen is effectively 25 times more energydense than battery technology today. What that really means, and the
reason why it is important when we think about HGVs and long distance,
is that if you had 18 tonnes’ worth of battery, you will get 45 kilometres
in a truck, as opposed to 450 kilometres if you were including that with
onboard-stored hydrogen energy. That is one of the reasons and the
limitations.
We have to consider the wider environmental implications of battery
technology as a ubiquitous energy store. If you use a proportion of the
energy from hydrogen, then you are broadening the numbers of vehicles
and technologies that can be decarbonised, as opposed to running out of
scarce resources that are related to electrification and battery technology.
I would also make the point that the discussion for transport has only
mentioned fuel cell electric vehicles. The heating scenarios are working
on hydrogen combustion technologies. My own company is working on
hydrogen combustion technologies here and now—cost-effective, cheap,
accessible ways of us providing the equivalent of what consumers and
users have with these vehicles today. There is no doubt that, in the
future, as we need to be more efficient with using hydrogen that is going
to be expensive to make, there are potential opportunities for other
technologies that can use hydrogen more efficiently.
I would also point out that, in the heat sector, what is missing in some of
the understanding of heat is that if you do combined heat and power in a
smaller, micro scale—and fuel cell technology is superb for that—then we
can improve the overall energy efficiency of buildings. That limitation on
the fuel cells in heat is about making sure the hydrogen is available at
the home.
"Dr Needle: Thanks for the question. The gas distribution companies
working with BEIS and Ofgem through our innovation programmes have
been looking quite closely on what aspects of the current gas distribution
networks would need to be changed or updated in order to be able to
take 100% hydrogen. The plastic mains that we have today—and there is
a mains replacement programme going on as part of our obligation
anyway to replace our metal mains with plastic mains—effectively make
them ready to carry hydrogen. We are already doing that mains
replacement programme, and consumers are already paying for that in
their gas bills.
"The general philosophy should be, if we have electricity, we should use it.
If we cannot use it cost-effectively at the point at which we have the
electricity, we should convert it into something we can move, and that is
where hydrogen comes in. If we cannot use the hydrogen effectively,
then we might choose to convert the hydrogen into something else that is
easier to move, like ammonia or a liquid synthetic hydrocarbon. Each
step in that chain loses us useful work and costs money, so we have a
hierarchy.
The challenge is that you cannot always get the electricity cost-effectively
and practically to where you need it, so that is why we are looking at
other carriers like hydrogen
"Mr Robert Goodwill: Thanks. Just turning to industrial use, I know
there was mention of using hydrogen as a heat source, but obviously in
the metallurgical industries or in cement production we need a large
amount of energy, and hydrogen is a reducing agent. I do not know who
will be best qualified to answer that. Where could we see applications in
steel production or cement production using hydrogen as an alternative
to carbon-rich fuels?
Richard Halsey: Certainly, I think all those applications are potentially
very high value and important applications for hydrogen use.
"Dr Needle: Thank you. It was just to make the point that quite a lot of
effort is going into developing industrial clusters from a decarbonisation
point of view at the moment. There is HyNet in the north-west. There is
the Humber cluster in the north-east. There is obviously the Scotland
Acorn cluster as well. The whole purpose of those is to look at it as an
entity in terms of how you can decarbonise a whole range of heavy
industrial processes, including chemicals and steel. The HyNet one that
Cadent is associated with is glass manufacture as well as chemical
processing, and it includes hydrogen production, carbon capture and
storage, and CO2 capture of some of the industrial processes already.
I know it is part of Government commitment already to support the
investment in those clusters, but they all need to happen. I think it is
important that we consider what those clusters need to get off the
ground, which would be the business models that support both
production of hydrogen and carbon capture and storage, relatively
quickly.
Question 20 references the Humber cluster
and question 6 : "Then we have the issue of scale, how we get that electrolyser. It is worth reinforcing at this point comments others have made, that the UK has some world-class technology companies in this space. They are quite
small. They are 300 or 400-person businesses. They have been working really hard for the last couple of decades to get to that point. You are seeing investment into those companies from major overseas players and those technologies being deployed. That is a really important thing to note. We make stuff in this country that is used in this sector, and it is globally leading. There is a great opportunity for us to build on that innovation and grow that sector, and I am sure we will want to talk a little bit more about that. Those are the technologies you have, and the UK has strengths in all of those areas."
"Green hydrogen production is certainly a proven and mature technology.
It is being deployed. However, it is certainly more expensive than blue
hydrogen production, and there is the question of the volumes of
renewable—as Nigel suggested—electricity being used to convert into
hydrogen to then ultimately be converted into another end use, which is
a consideration.
Certainly, there is a need for industrial-scale demonstration of green
hydrogen, but that needs to also be done as part of integrated energy
systems rather than just an isolated technology demonstration. How does
hydrogen fit into a wider, more sophisticated energy system?"
"Our association argues that in terms of the here and now, between now
and 2030, which is the other thing that we think needs to happen, you
might have 300 TWh of hydrogen energy in the system by 2050, but, as
has been pointed out, we do not have any as an energy vector today,
effectively. We need a target by 2030. Because electrolysis and/or green
hydrogen production is quite modular, it can be scaled.
"Therefore, we
would argue, trying to find as many no-brainer and doable scenarios
where we could develop green hydrogen, and as Nigel says produce and
manufacture the technology here in the UK, will do the other part we
need to do, which is to get jobs going.
Q9 Chair: Cost is a really interesting issue. I know Australia has set as part
of its hydrogen strategy—I forget the catchy expression it used, but it
was something like “A2 for H2”—hydrogen for $2 a measure, if it is
kilowatt hours or whatever the measurement is.
"From a feasibility point of view, though, we are working quite heavily on
the things that we would need to do with the distribution network to
make it hydrogen-ready. There is a big piece of work that BEIS has done
called Hy4Heat, looking at 100% hydrogen in the home and the impact
that that has from a safety and feasibility point of view.
Thanks, the BBC radio 4 piece is a good find. Check out also this select committee hearing : https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/d6cb4c7c-bfc4-4393-b17f-0b7ab7d4f77f
and
https://committees.parliament.uk/work/295/technological-innovations-and-climate-change-hydrogen/
and if you hate videos and want to skim read a transcript it's one click from :
https://committees.parliament.uk/event/1513/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/
direct link to transcript :
https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/677/html/
General blurb about the theme of the evidence session issued beforehand :
The second session of this inquiry looks at hydrogen production and distribution. As the country with the largest offshore wind capacity and an extensive gas network, the UK has a comparative advantage in distributing and handling gases and producing ‘green hydrogen’ via electrolysis using electricity generated from offshore wind. By February 2020, the Government had invested over £90 million in hydrogen projects to enable industries to develop and deploy hydrogen technologies. These projects include the £33 million Low Carbon Hydrogen Supply competition and the UK Hydrogen Mobility Programme. In addition, the Government has announced £70 million of investment in new hydrogen supply and industrial fuel switching projects. This session will consider the opportunities to maximise continued development and effectiveness of this technology, and the challenges faced by the industry in delivering greater capacity.
Hydrogen has the potential to service demands for some industrial processes, to deliver energy-dense applications in HGVs and ships, and to produce electricity and heating in peak periods. Significant development in Carbon Capture and Storage technology and supporting infrastructure will be necessary, if methods such as steam methane reforming, are to be used to scale up low-carbon hydrogen production. Small Modular Reactors are being investigated as another possible way to produce low-carbon hydrogen. The potential for widespread installation of hydrogen boilers and gas distribution networks to be repurposed to hydrogen offer possible ways to contribute to net zero emissions. Related decisions over the balance between electrification and hydrogen in decarbonising heat require exploration now for the UK to find the most cost-effective transition to a low-carbon economy.
As hydrogen has a potential role in electricity generation, transportation, industry and heating fully integrated policy, regulatory design and implementation is crucial.
The development and deployment of hydrogen solutions could protect and create high value jobs in the energy sector. However, depending on how hydrogen is produced, for example, through steam methane reforming or electrolysis of water powered by renewable resources, it too can have negative environmental impacts. In 2018 around 95% of the global production of hydrogen was generated from fossil fuels.
I do want to own hemo again, the CEO is excellent and I love his tweets. However, I do think that Synairgen has the most potential for prompt and major news/upside, then ODX. Then hemo and avct are both good punts for different reasons. Valerix I think is overpriced now and due to fall. CTEA is a mere ponzi scheme and will be 2.6p again in no time. As soon as synairgen or odx pop, some of that money is into Hemo. Or ITM ... all I hear from BEIS, energy systems catapult, the EU is talk of hydrogen strategy but ITM is down (I have it). Once up, hello Hemo if the price is right
2.6p more like. I haven't had CTEA for a while because I concluded it was a ponzi scheme with only one leg, which itself has no foundations.
My top holdings in the covid sphere are odx and synairgen. But, I also hold AVCT as I feel it will break some time over next month. Don't know when. I have no CTEA whatsoever now, and have come to regard it as a mere ponzi scheme without any foundations. I like that posters here on avct, and on odx and synairgen, are tolerant, thoughtful and intelligent, so unlike the intolerant ramptastic CTEA board where anyone expressing even mild doubts is personally insulted. It's counterproductive, as it looks negative and deters would-be investors who don't want to be in that sort of company (as in, the company of those type of fellow-investors).
I am currently out of hemo, but watching it. I think valerix is poor long-term, but it confounds me with its rises !
AVCT is also a very good long-term punt entirely apart from covid (including the cancer treatment - the ability to concentrate chemo agents - knowing the half-life of the chemo agents would help one's understanding a lot; if short good, if long bad as will disperse after localised release by the affimer, so the effective local concentration across the effective life of the chemo will be less, and heart toxicity limit will be more binding).
pre-conception radiation exposure and risk of a child developing leukaemia. "
See journal of cancer article by the late professor sir Richard doll, rural population mixing can now.be taken as established as the cause of clusters of infant lymphoblastic leukemia cases including the seascape cluster. NOT radiation.
Oh for pity's sake that is not nuclear waste !!
Ha ha, I experienced some funny accidents in factory and farm jobs in the 80s that could easily have been serious. As soon as I got up after a pallet of items fell on me as an overloaded fork lift passed behind, the momentary concern was gone, back to work all. Nowadays in that same factory English people aren't employed at all, it's via a gangmaster and you have to speak Romanian. I daresay boohoo isn't the only firm using Leicester sweatshops with underpaid trafficked (allegedly) illegals. But this seems to be a big issue for them and I think it won't go away until they sort it out. When I sold boohoo I remember putting that bit of money into eden, a lovely firm and my most ethical long term stock, therefore exact other end of spectrum from boohoo, though I have waited a long time for Eden's products to translate into profits.
COPD kills too many people. Go Synairgen ! I believe the hospital trials result report (covid) is due this month; don't know when, but 18th June RNS said in July. If it can clobber covid in a hospital session, and then if the larger scale home-use trial under way comes home, we could be quite the thing. Soon enough find out. Nice to clobber COPD too. nasty, that.
>> we can always force the govt to to inspect nuclear power plants for radiation leaks that have been causing leukaemia for decades
- they are "inspected" continuously with monitors both at the site and on surrounding land, and don't leak at all. That's tosh.
It has been so long since the government called in this appeal decision for it to decide, and ripped it from the hands of the planning inspectorate which had held hearings in January 2019 following written submissions in September 2018. They said they would decide by April 2020 then put it back due to covid. Dare I hope that the civil service get this out ahead of August ? A lot of decisions are bunged out last week of July.