Member Info for LongInvestor

210K Capital, LP - 39,000,000

Andrew Webley - 12,889,366

Joanna Webley - 12,889,366

Other Rollover Investors - 12,612,603

Chadwick Roach - 5,000,000

Long Run Capital II, L.P - 4,000,000

Green Lumber Holdings L.P - 2,875,000

Pre-IPO Investors (Unnamed) - 2,400,000

Peterhouse Capital Limited - 2,250,000

Mario Visconti - 950,000

Sean Wade - 500,000

Jamie Tosh - 500,000

Gregg Davis - 200,000

Hot Rocks Investments plc - 300,000

Total Warrants: 96,066,335

At current prices, US has closed at 69p (usdgbp converted) so looks like the market is drifting down to fully diluted NAV (inc warrants) which is currently 58p - so we’re not yet below NAV…

@HarChris, I’ve read many of your posts over in ARB the years and respect your viewpoints. Reading today’s posts however, I can only think that you must be in deep on SWC and looking to protect your investment, which I can understand.

The one comment I very much disagree agree on is this “ The UK leading treasury company will almost certainly trade at a huge premium to NAV once again when sentiment returns” - It is now common commentary across all these treasures that the huge NAVs are a thing of the past. When the euphoria was happening, it was all new, people were FOMO’ing in the the likes of SWC not really understanding it all…. The landscape has now changed IMHO, there is now common language and knowledge on how to value the companies, so unfortunately, I think the days of multiples of NAV are not going to return, UNLESS the company can demonstrate additional value outside of just ATMs (which is just a ponzi in reality).

Whilst there are risks with ETNs, as a reference, I asked Grok what would happen if WisdomTree (a ETN provider) went bankrupt vs Smarter Web Company.

“ In the event of WisdomTree’s bankruptcy, its Physical Bitcoin ETN (BTCW) benefits from a segregated structure, where 100% of the underlying Bitcoin is held in independent custody (e.g., with Coinbase Custody), ring-fenced from WisdomTree’s creditors. This setup, similar to gold ETPs, allows for a potential transfer to a new sponsor or redemption of the Bitcoin (cash or in-kind). Historical precedents, like the 2018 ETF Securities restructuring, suggest investors could recover their full net asset value (NAV) within 3-6 months for straightforward transfers or liquidations, though complex cases (e.g., custodian delays or disputes) might extend to 12 months. Recovery is not covered by the FSCS, and Bitcoin’s volatility could impact the final value, but the segregated assets provide a strong layer of protection compared to unsecured investments.

Conversely, if The Smarter Web Company Plc (SWC), a UK web agency with a Bitcoin treasury, goes bankrupt, shareholders face a much tougher scenario. SWC’s Bitcoin is a corporate asset, not segregated for investors, meaning it’s subject to creditor claims during liquidation. In UK corporate bankruptcies, like Carillion’s 2018 collapse, shareholders are last in line and often receive nothing, with liquidation processes taking 1-3+ years due to complex creditor payouts. Unlike the ETN, there’s no mechanism to prioritize shareholder recovery, and FSCS protection doesn’t apply to shares. Investors in SWC would likely face near-total loss with significantly longer delays compared to WisdomTree’s ETN. Diversification across asset types is key to managing these risks. (Data as of October 12, 2025)”

DYOR as always.

Not protected? Please elaborate?

I was thinking yesterday, before the flash crash, it would be great if BTC dipped down on Monday to get a better entry price for the new ETNs - As if by magic, Mr Trump and Mr Xi Jinping came to the rescue, helping the UK retail investors! :-)

There's always a positive somewhere. In the grand casino of crypto, the house may shake, but we’ll all be alright in the end!

Have a great w/e all.

I moved out of all my miners in 2023/24, apart from MARA and split the funds between MSTR and DAGB which have both done well and helped me recover my losses from the miners in 2022 :)

MARA seems to be doing well today, for a change! - I have a sell limit order on my position, hopefully it will hit today, and I will rotate that money into ARKK which I also hold and is doing well too. (I seem to be having more luck with funds nowdays and it's a lot easier to manage)

The question is, will this bull market for miners / BTC related companies come crashing down like last year in Dec/Jan? or will it continue into 2026 like some are commenting?

@BusterScrugs - "I’m not sure what incentive they have to seek a full LSE listing tbh."

The CEO has heavily hinted in various podcasts they are actively working on uplisting, it seems one of the main drivers is UK II's have said 'come and see us again when your on the LSE' regarding investment. On what terms, and if that comes to fruition is a different thing, but that appears to be the 'incentive' for them. They are making the right moves with changing CFO, Advisors, Auditors, NED etc - They need to publish a prospectus, announce intention and get FCA approval and also annouce leaving Aquis, which means 6+ week delay from any announcement, hence the Dec/Jan I quoted as nothing is offically announced as yet.

In the mean time, I suspect retail looking for BTC exposure, will put money into the ETN/ETPs next week (seems Monday could be the day they go live?), rather than SWC. If BTC continues to go up and SWC stays flat or decreases, more money will switch over to the ETNs is my hypothesis.

After being burnt trading some of these DATs recently, I now value them based on a fully diluted basis, and that includes the warrants which DAT dashboards often don’t include (even though many are labeled as ‘fully diluted’)!

For SWC, I calculate NAV as 63p currently, which includes their £6.5m cash and most of the 2.5p warrants. I have removed 27.2m x 2.5p warrants from the calc (those held by CEO/Wife and a couple of directors) for the time being, as they seem ‘safe’ for now.

If / when SWC uplists to LSE (Dec/Jan?), this could have an initial positive effect on the SP, but it also introduces the ability for shorting the stock, so beware and don’t forget to take profits before the shorters get them.

Unless there is some major change, I see SWC drifting down to fully diluted NAV as above.

If you're referring to me, check my posting history, on June 23rd 2025 I stated "These will come crashing down soon and money will rotate into the next treasury co." referring to SWC and COIN with their bonkers mNAVs.... then look at the charts to see what happened! ;-)

With regards to the US investor, they can sell those $8m of shares from tomorrow if the SP recovers a little, they then have a free carry of the warrants, with zero capital tied up!! - Grok's analysis said "Using Black-Scholes approximation, the warrant might be worth ~£0.20-£0.30 each so effective price for the share: £1.00 - warrant value ≈ £0.70-£0.80." So the CEO might say he never gives discounts, but Grok says the II essentially paid 70-80p per share vs £1 retail would pay.

Couple them both together, I think the II got a good deal (Discount and/or free carry). If SWC can survive until March 2026 with a big enough MCap to enter the FTSE 250, they will have a good chance longer term. I like the management's ethos and intent, just the market is currently against BTC TC's and I don't argue with the market.

@barnetpeter “ Why? Security, tax, theft, fraud. Worth it for a small premium.”

The ETN’s available from tomorrow are Bitcoin backed and held by companies like Blackrock, Fidelity etc FAR bigger and more secure than SWC. They can be held in ISA / SIP so no TAX. If you remove those, the only benefit is possible leverage above BTC… however, all BTCTC (apart from MSTR) seem to be dropping down to NAV or below, so currently there is a lot of risk in SWC and other UK BTCTCs vs the ETN’s which give you exposure to BTC with security and tax benefits.

I expect all the UK BTCTC’s to take a hit over the coming days/weeks as people realise what the ETNs actually are.

Has anyone found any news to cause the surge?

Grok gave this as the reason "The surge was primarily driven by a favorable high court ruling on October 3, 2025, approving Argo Blockchain's proposed recapitalization plan." but says the official court order is not yet publically available online..

“ Isn’t it 2550 BTC @ £92k = £235m + recent raise vs £300m mcap?”

I have mNAV 1.0 @ ~81p currently - when including today’s and previous warrants (excluding the CEO, his wife and Mario’s warrants, assuming they are lower risk of being executed) I have mNAV 1 at ~64p

@jogonnow “ Why some are posting about them on this chat board is beyond me.”

ME: “Moving to the ETN’s keeps BTC exposure, lowers risk and protects from potentially another 40% drop in SWC.”

“ ETF/ETN/ETP etc...are completely different types of investments compared to bitcoin treasuries.”

You are correct, the former have all increased in value the last three months whilst the latter treasury companies have all declined…. For SWC, there is still more potential for decline as it drops to NAV, like most others have.

SWC need to uplist and get more investment before it will move upwards IMHO. Grok gives only a 5% chance of entering the FTSE 250 on the next rebalance in Dec when I last asked, there are still too many hurdles to jump yet (another NED, prospectus, FCA approval etc), so more realistically March 2026 is the next rebalance, Grok only gives 40-50% chance then!

With that in mind, I too suspect UK SWC investors will rotate into ETNs and SWC will drop down to NAV of around 75p or even down to ~60p when including the 96m warrants. Moving to the ETN’s keeps BTC exposure, lowers risk and protects from potentially another 40% drop in SWC.

If they can survive until 2H2026, I do think there’s a chance SWC could do well, however, the SWC community on X reminds me of Argo Blockchain, everyone thought PW was the greatest, until he wasn’t… then people saw through the cracks and ARB sank.

"Someone was asking about this the other day, have you found any UK listings for Bitcoin ETPs? Specifically any which are allowed in an ISA?"

Not completed my research but so far, these look like the top 3 contenders:

WBTC - WisdomTree Physical Bitcoin - 0.15% TER - AUM 1,182m - SIX Swiss Exchange (Euros)

IB1T - Blackrock iShares Bitcoin ETP - 0.15% TER - AUM 488m - Deutsche Borse Xetra (Euros)

BITB - Bitwise Bitcoin - 0.20% TER - AUM 500m - NYSE (USD)

All the above (plus lots more) are currently available on T212 as 'view only'; to get access to trade the available ETN's on 8th Oct, you have to answer a few questions about ETN's and your trading history with Crypto. Once survey is completed, you're informed you will have access on 8th.

I was hoping to find a ETN that was £ based on LSE and also one $ based trading on US times with low TER% but not found them yet - I will wait until 8th and then continue looking once they are all live.

BTC ETNs are available for retail on 8th Oct, I'll likely buy some but not looked / deceided which yet, is there any up to date breakdown anywhere of costs etc?

I was thinking the ETNs might add further selling pressure on SWC / SATS etc as retail either moves to a 'safer' place until these treasuries stop falling?

Thoughts?

From recent RNS's

10th Sept - £400,000 available in treasury

22nd Sept - 4956905*97%=£4,808,197 + £400,000 ‎ = £5,208,197 available

23rd Sept - £5,208,197 minus £4,613,502 = £594,695 available

However, in todays RNS it says only £300,000 available in treasury, what’s happened to the additional £294,695 ?

Am I missing something or is that some very expensive trips to NYC / Singapore / London for the conferences??

Whilst I'm interested in getting some SWC, none of my brokers list time. Hearing FTSE listing being mentioned, I've just asked Grok to see what's needed and timescales... doesn't look like it will be any time soon! :(

3-Year Trading History: SWC, listed on AQSE since April 25, 2025, lacks the 3-year audited financial history required for a Premium Listing (FCA LR 6.2.1). Must secure an FCA waiver, which is discretionary and requires demonstrating growth potential and robust risk management for its Bitcoin Treasury Policy.

Bitcoin Volatility: SWC’s £184m Bitcoin holdings (as of July 2025) pose regulatory scrutiny due to price volatility, custody risks, and lack of UK regulation, requiring enhanced disclosures and risk mitigation (e.g., institutional-grade custody).

Market Capitalization: FTSE 250 typically requires £500m+ market cap. SWC’s current valuation is £630m, so meets this requirement.

Free Float: Must ensure 25% of shares in public hands, potentially challenging if Bitcoin-focused investors dominate ownership.

Corporate Governance: Adopt UK Corporate Governance Code, including independent directors and board committees, a step up from AQSE’s lighter requirements.

Investor Appeal: Convince institutional investors of stability despite Bitcoin exposure, as FTSE 250 inclusion demands broad market support.

Regulatory Compliance: Prepare FCA-approved prospectus, meet stricter Disclosure and Transparency Rules, and appoint a sponsor for ongoing compliance.

Probable Timescales:Total Duration: 9–15 months, assuming proactive preparation.

Feasibility study and planning: 2–3 months.

Documentation, governance upgrades, and waiver application: 4–6 months.

FCA approval and LSE admission: 3–6 months.

FTSE 250 Inclusion: Post-listing, SWC must meet FTSE Russell’s quarterly review criteria (market cap, liquidity), potentially adding 3–12 months.

Estimated Costs:Initial Listing Costs: £500,000–£2m, including:Sponsor, legal, and accounting fees: £300,000–£1.5m.

Prospectus preparation: £100,000–£300,000.

LSE listing fees: £50,000–£200,000 (based on market cap).

Ongoing Costs: £200,000–£500,000 annually for compliance, reporting, and sponsor fees.

Capital Raising: Likely £10m–£50m to boost market cap and free float, with underwriting fees of 2–5%.

Note: Costs vary based on SWC’s size, Bitcoin-related complexities, and adviser rates.

Key Considerations:SWC’s Bitcoin Treasury Policy strengthens its innovative appeal but heightens FCA scrutiny.

A Standard Listing (6–9 months, lower costs) is easier but excludes FTSE 250 eligibility.