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SW/77. I thought the jd/ah case was for defamation and therefore a civil matter not a criminal one - one party against another party (civil) rather than the state against a party (criminal). US authorities cannot prosecute in the UK on criminal cases - they can only prosecute in the US,
and only if US laws are deemed to have been broken. The UK authorities don’t want to prosecute so, unless they change their minds, the criminal case, if brought, cannot be held in the UK.

That is my understanding. A sorry state of affairs.

Sw/77. It won’t be heard in the UK as the authorities here have already indicated that in their view there is no criminal case to answer. The problem lies in the extradition treaty between us and the US where the US can ask for somebody to be extradite to the US without evidence while the UK can only ask for extradition to the UK with evidence. This needs to be changed and has been debated often in the HoC without ant action being taken. The HS had very little option without breaching the treaty as the civil case went against ML. Mad!

PatShare: it is not possible to get an accurate value for trade volumes as automatic (SETS -or A os U) trades are recorded differently from Money Maker (O) trades. For every share bought/sold in U and A trade it will be recorded as 1 in volume and with O trades 2 in volume - so, when added together, the volume recored is indicative only. A somewhat complex matter, but this article explains it well it should you be interested in learning about it.

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/81/idiots-guide-to-the-london-stock-exchanges-setsmm-0379.html

PI-Winner. Some of your posts are bordering on infringing Rule 4 of of the bb rules. Take care.

Also, for someone who is keen on facts it seems you are still having difficulty in distinguishing fact from opinion.

Good to hear Nidec. Presumably they are delighted with the application?

Getafgrip - agree - personally I would like to see DT take a more proactive stance on reputation - or is it crises? - management. Product and service excellence are only part of the equation.

Los - this is Darktrace saying in the IPO prospectus what the potential risks facing DT as a public company could face - a verbatim copy except the insertion of Darktrace in brackets to define “Group”. It was a very real concern ant the time of the IPO and any public company is obliged to identify material risks.

Any risk assessment is speculative - combination of the chance of something happening and the consequence of it happening.

Risk factors 1 & 3 are different in consequence - reputation in 1 and litigation In 3. The concern at the time was that if Autonomy were found guilty of fraud, it could lead to litigation as the money used to fund Darktrace at inception was from the sale of Autonomy (money laundering legislation I think)

The reputation risk is real and still current , the litigation risk (chance) has diminished considerably I would have thought.

Perhaps old news but I am not 100% sure that all the liability issues have evaporated. At IPO Darktrace listed 10 risk factors, these were 3 of them. ML was no longer on the BOD at that time. These concerns were one of a number reasons DT was floated for 250p rather than the 400p+ that had been anticipated.

Do you think this is another attempt to tarnish?

Quote
-The Group (Darktrace) may face reputational risk arising out of unlawful, and allegedly unlawful, activities in connection with the sale of Autonomy Corporation plc and related matters.
- The Group may face potential liability arising out of its historic funding by Invoke.
- The Group may face potential liability arising out of unlawful, and allegedly unlawful, activities in connection with the sale of Autonomy and related matters.
Unquote

Pi-winner. On reflection on my stance on not curtailing free-speech, I concur there must be limits - both legally and otherwise - so I fully support your action on having a thread removed. The posts went too far and the motivation was indeed suspect.

Cassandra - we were in a similar business to ENRON and we couldn’t understand how they were making so much more money than us in a business that did not lend itself to such margins. I mentioned this to one of on the rating agent guys at a diner (at a conference) saying that I thought there was something “not right” about their rating. I got a huge amount of verbal abuse - he had drunk too much - which reinforced my conviction that some thing was indeed wrong. Six months later………….

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the QCM report, in my opinion Darktrace needs to take further and more robust action to protect its reputation. Unfortunately in the court of public opinion you are guilty till proved innocent.

To me, a company’s reputation is of paramount importance. Some on this BB disagree.

This is the importance Buffett places on the matter writing to his CEOs.
“The top priority—trumping everything else, including profits—is that all of us continue to zealously guard Berkshire’s reputation.”
“We can’t be perfect but we can try to be. As I’ve said in these memos for more than 25 years: ‘We can afford to lose money—even a lot of money. But we can’t afford to lose reputation—even a shred of reputation.’ We must continue to measure every act against not only what is legal but also what we would be happy to have written about on the front page of a national newspaper in an article written by an unfriendly but informed journalist.”

Darktrace would do well to take heed IMHO.

But you don’t learn if you don’t invest. Most good investors I know of have learnt in the school of hard knocks. In my view the best way of learning is through your mistakes.

But don’t invest if you are not prepared ar times to lose at times, and lose significantly. I think Charlie Munger once said if you win 60% of the time and lose 40% you are doing fantastically well.

Corncribwr - In response to your comment “no investors seem to properly understand this volatile and unpredictable company............”

I think you are probably right. I certainly don’t presume to fully understand it. But It is actually one reason I bought into it - to learn about SAAS companies. And I had the notion - and still do - that they were onto something technology wise. But the accounts are complex with the all effects of SBC, deferred revenues, negative working capital, capitalised commission …. makes it difficult for me, and I suspect most, to get to truly get to grips with it. And it’s value is all do do with how the future unfolds.

Not one for the faint hearted. But an interesting merry go round if you can afford it and take the considerable risks that are implicit in this type of company.

PI-winner. If you are right that a smaller free float is beneficial, it seems to me the 3% dilution of the shares since IPO to pay for the SBC which increases the free float - was even more onerous to shareholders that I first thought.

When the free float was low immediately after IPO, this was seen as a contributory factor influencing the high volatility of the shares at that time smt the crazy SPs.

I suggest all that can be, and is being, achieved as a plc. Surely the price it could be bought out for has no relevance to the company - and the more paid for it the less there is over to invest in it. Are you confusing what is good for the company and what is good for the present owners?

Cr888 - Why is it the best solution for Dark, as a company, to “go private”?

I’m sure the site must have been posted before, but I had a look at the ShortEurope.com site today and it gives all sorts of statistics regarding shorting activity on European Exchanges (incl. UK_ and the histories. The huge sums won or lost daily and historically by the shortest is mind boggling - to me at least. How can they sleep at night.

I don’t know what it means, but Darktrace does not appear today to be on the active shorts page although the 5 short positions QCM recently took are listed elsewhere under QCM. These are the 3 sells (of borrowed stock) and two re buys.

“The SP has materially increased since the report and QCM have materially reduced their short position. That is the FACTS that you need to accept.’

Facts are : the SP has increased since the report was issued on 31/1. But an additional fact is that the Sp today below the SP on 27/1 when QCM opened their first short.

Whether the price and short changes are material changes is opinion, not fact.

Chris Patten in The Times today talking about free speech in universities.

“I hope what we do at a good university is to give people the intellectual confidence and ability to argue tolerantly with people who don’t agree with them.”

Change “good university” for “ this bb”and I think the quality of the contribution would increase considerably.

100notout - yes agree. Perhaps, though, the first and last line of RK’s poem “if” sums it up: “if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs….. … you will be a man my son”