Ryan Mee, CEO of Fulcrum Metals, reviews FY23 and progress on the Gold Tailings Hub in Canada. Watch the video here.
Hi All, I'm just researching this one so apologies if this topic has been covered before. Does anyone have a reference to public statements about David Hall's % time allocated to Erris Resources? His other significant duties appear to be as CEO of Thani Stratex Resources and Chariman of Horizonte Minerals plc. But it's possible he resigned other duties when stepping up to the Erris CEO role - if that's the case and anyone has a reference for that it would also be very helpful. Thanks in advance for any pointers/info. Ev.
Hi RK, thanks again for responses. Pdub's was also particularly useful in the other thread. In terms of info about me I don't mind responding privately - have followed on Twitter. Your third question sounds like I was talking down the prospects for vertical integration - which I wasn't at all - apologies if anything I said gave you that impression. I was seeking help from the community here regarding some details - and the community (especially Pdub and Alfa) have very much helped out - thank you all. Ev.
Thanks Stodgy and thanks again Pdub for the carefully selected and relevant quote. Just to add to what I said last night, I agree that statement can help us to formulate some outline assumptions - it is indeed just the sort of help I was hoping for - much appreciated - many thanks indeed for your time on this. Ev.
Hi Pdub, many thanks. I thought it was an interesting topic to discuss as it shines a light on an important area of expansion - I must admit that some of the defensive replies made me more persistent than I might otherwise have been(!!) but I don't think anyone invested should have conerns about analysing BMN's strategy - everything I know if it looks extremely solid - I was just seeking help on a particular point where I'd got stuck. Thanks for all of your efforts, Ev.
...still can't say I've read the 172 pages [sorry]...but Invinity doc on page 22 reiterates the REDT/BMN RNS of 9 March in which a special vehicle is set up to which BMN provide the Vanadium and Invinity provide funds for electrolyte production.
What I hadn't spotted when I last read it [many thanks Alfa for the pointer] is that it goes on to say "The Company has also agreed...to grant Bushveld aright of first refusal to supply vanadium products..." Interestingly that wasn't in BMN's own RNS on the topic.
The first bit is the part where others have suggested Oxchem [or other outsourced provider] would be involved... but the second is intriguing in relation to my question...without actually answering it. Clearly there's an implication that "products" could mean electrolyte, which would be a very positive answer to the question. I'd still really like to find a more solid answer though [in terms of public statements made] - I do imagine it exists but I haven't found it. Any help still much appreciated. Ev.
Ok, no probs - have given you a follow just now in case you'd like to follow up (but no worries if not).
Revisiting the Invinity admission doc now as suggested... but obvs if you can point me at the reference to the specific point on geographic strategy of BMN's vertical integration that would be awesome. Bushveld Perspective seems all about getting the detailed research right - my question is very much in this spirit. Some replies above sound (in my view) unnecessarily defensive - I had thought it was a question that would help not hinder valuation by shining a light on particular expansion opportunities. Thanks in advance for any help, Ev.
Hi Alfa, I've really appreciated all of your analyses on here BTW...have been following for some time. Re: Invinity admission doc - the truth is I scan read it when it came out but will certainly go back to it. I'd also read many REDT/Avalon docs previously. BTW I was seeking to clarify a detail with you guys who obviously spend more time pouring over the docs than me - certainly I was't trying to claim any superior knowledge here. Do you mind if DM you via the Bushveld Perspective Twitter [or some other means - I don't have LSE premium as yet ] ?
Absolutely Mr Well-fed Financier, it is an impressive list. I'm also working on trying to pin down the global scope of 1e and 1f based on whatever statements I can find [ see separate thread of earlier today]...any help much appreicated...will try to post summary when able. Ev.
Thanks HaleSpur - indeed my intention was to seek help from anyone who may have spent more time on this than me - hopefully that is part of the role of this community in helping one another. Are you able to respond to the point about which geographical markets the plant is targeting and where that is stated [presumably stated somewhere - I just haven't found it yet] ? Many thanks in advance, Ev.
Thanks HaleSpur. The UK eletrolyte point is based on replies I received to my earlier question (mid-March), with some here suggesting it likely that REDT (as then was) would work with Oxkem [Berkshire, UK] to put the supply chain in for the electrolyte step - i.e. at this point in the UK BMN are not operating as an integrated supplier - though I am very willing to believe the intention is that they will become an integrated to the UK - and should be valued on the basis of being integrated - particularly if we can find statements describing how they see their role in future European supply chains.
Well indeed Knuttie. The notion of vertically integrated clearly has a particular definition as far BMN's RNS statements go. My post was meant to be constructive for me and others researching here - it seems that the more precise we can be about the scope of the vertical integration the more accurate our projections. Any help much appreciated.
Hi Pdub, many thanks for the reply - yes I totally agree - I want to make sure that any time I update my valuation of BMN it's based on statements that have been made, not on speculation. The statements make absolutely clear that we should value BMN based on not only the global vanadium market but also vertical elements of the energy storage value chain in some geographical territories. I am exploring the extent to which we can identify which elements of the chain and which territories - hoping others are kind enough to share references to statements if they have them. For SA this question is easy to answer - BMN clearly has the whole chain going on, right through to production of VRFB themselves. That's not speculation - it's clearly written in RNS statements. For rest of Africa, Europe, North America the intent is at least to supply Vanadium to the electrolyte plants operated by others, and perhaps do more of the chain. I was asking if others who may have done more research than me can point me to concrete statements made about the scope of that? And what of China and India? Just a Vanadium supplier or something more? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Ev.
Many thanks Halespur, much appreciated. Yes I think you're absolutely right to refer to the 7th Nov RNS which describes the electolyte plant. Is it your understanding that this aims to supply electrolyte for rental to territories outside of South Africa (and at least Africa)? What is your reference for that? Is there a statement to this effect? I haven't yet found it.
RK thank you, your positive sentiments are I'm sure appreciated by many investors here. Just to be clear on our definitions, by "vertically integrated" I understand us to mean "doing more than one step in the value chain", and when interpreted in the context of VRFB I understand that we mean BMN will do not just the mining step but the electrolyte rental step, in at least some territories. I hope this is how you understand "vertically integrated" also. I find acquisitions is the interesting point in what you have said. I fully see how funding an 8% stake in Invinity does help build the market for VRFB [and therefore drives demand], but I don't yet know in what way this meets the specific aim of vertical integration [i.e. doing the electrolyte rental step] outside of SA. I'm not denying that such a strategy is likely to exist, I'm just saying I don't know what it is. If Halespur is right and BMN intend to use SA plants to produce electolyte for European and North America rental, what becomes of the work done by Invinity on UK-based eletrolyte production? On the other hand, if the 8% is just a build-up to acquisition, why would there be an attempt (as Halespur suggests) of doing the processing in SA, if BMN intend to acquire European/American facilities to do the same thing?
...figuring out exactly how "vertically integrated" BMN intends to be?
I've asked a similar question on here before, and got helpful thoughts. It seems worth revisiting in the wake of the Invinity/REDT RNS. I agree with all who are saying the company should be valued at more than a Vanadium miner, due to the grander vision of a vertically integrated supply chain into battery storage.
But (as the helpful answer I got last time about REDT illustrated) there is a considerable difference between being the electrolyte rental provider in SA (via the Vanchem processing facility) and being an electrolyte rental service globally.
At present the Invinity plan for UK does * not * include BMN ownership of electrolyte production [the helpful answer from last time suggested a likely outsourcing to a UK provider].
So which is it? Vertically integrated in SA and simply a low-cost Vanadium supplier outside SA? Or vertically integrated global electrolyte rental? If global, how do BMN intend to get there?
I think this company's future is exciting. To be clear my question is not about whether it will be much bigger than it is today, more about how much bigger and how we should value that scale-up.
All thoughts/comments welcome.
Thanks RK, much appreciated. It partly answers the question because this means the supply to redT is not (yet) vertically integrated, in the sense that another vanadium producer could equally employ Oxkem [or similar] services and be just as efficient, assuming Oxkem themselves are not part of the JV. I had inferred that the aspiration to be vertically integrated (as exemplified by owning Vanchem) is not just to seed the VRFB market but also that it confers some sorts of efficiency - a company that owns the electolyte processing facility along with the mine can produce electrolyte more cheaply and dependably than one that has to outsource electrolyte production. Am wondering if there is a European/American game plan around owning electrolyte production - the investment platform isn't yet demonstrating it - but I'm trying to deduce whether it is part of the strategy.
[ NOTE: there isn't really a giraffe on my driveway - mainly I wrote that to get your attention, but if there was it would be a transient and largely irrelevant phenomenon, and of little concern to the members of this share chat, who I'm sure are more interested by long-term trends. ]
So perhaps we can get back to talking about useful long-term things, since so many here say they would like to take the long view...
Specifically I was wondering about the redT joint venture announcement - it has hardly been discussed here despite apparent significance. I posted last night but I think it got a bit lost whilst everyone freaked out about the short-term valuation. Would anyone more knowledgeable than me be able to help answer the questions below?
If I've understood correctly the BMN/REDT joint venture (JV) will create a UK company, and BMN will invest in this company by transfering vanadium asset to it, whereas REDT will invest in the form of cash or loans to it. The activities of this new company will be to produce electrolyte from the vanadium it owns, so that REDT can rent that back for their batteries.
Two questions perhaps you could help me with:
1. Is my understanding above correct?
2. If BMN would like to be vertically integrated, does this mean that it intends to have controlling stake in the JV? Do we know the % share ownership of each party?? I'm unclear why the companies leave this information out of their RNS - I feel it would really help our understanding of value if they could state it.
Hope someone can shed some light! Cheers, Ev.
If I've understood correctly the BMN/REDT joint venture (JV) will create a UK company, and BMN will invest in this company by transfering vanadium asset to it, whereas REDT will invest in the form of cash or loans to it. The activities of this new company will be to produce electrolyte from the vanadium it owns, so that REDT can rent that back for their batteries.
Two questions perhaps the board can help with.
1. Is my understanding above correct?
2. If BMN would like to be vertically integrated, does this mean that it intends to have controlling stake in the JV? Do we know the % share ownership of each party?? I'm unclear why the companies leave this information out of their RNS - I feel it would really help our understanding of value if they could state it.
Hope someone can shed some light! Cheers, Ev.
Hi All, long-time lurker first-time poster...
Puzzled by the comments about EU regulation - I realise it might just have been a UK-centric political point, but one of the [several] things that encourages me that BMN will have a global marketplace has been precisely the EU's forward thinking approach to VRFB, often led or coordinated by the British and done as a collaborative effort.
For example this report from UWE Bristol is a European Commission document and VRFB is specifically featured:
https://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/towards_the_battery_of_the_future_FB20_en.pdf
Further this is underpinned by the European Battery Alliance initiative:
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/policy/european-battery-alliance_en
Whilst much of the strategy is [quite rightly in my view] about developing a home-grown battery manufacturing industry, there is also an acknowledgement of the global nature and the need to secure raw materials from outside Europe. There are even some funded projects experimenting with different uses, e.g. VRFB in a home or community setting: https://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/216744/factsheet/en Whilst also plenty of EU funded research looking at grid scale: https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/en/publication/smart-grid-energy-storage-controller-frequency-regulation-and-peak-shaving-using-vanadium-redox-flow
UK/Germany/Benelux all seem in agreement and in favour of grid-scale flow storage and have been making their voices heard. Are there other EU member states you perceive as trying to restrict this? If so which ones??