Member Info for Damienmoore

LTI,

"I cannot see why the rest of the family would want to take it private".

Where have I ever said this? I said it could be delisted from the LSE and relisted on a different exchange, such as TISE. This would risk disenfranchising private investors like us.

LTI

"The dividend payment now is greater than when the share price was over 300p, and is just as sustainable. as then. Get it out of your head once and for all."

Just because the dividend is greater than it was, doesn't mean the underlying companies will create enough income to cover the dividend if held for an entire year. The trust churns the portfolio to create the income cover for the dividend. Whether this is sustainable - well you'll find out in the future.

Wake up - your dogma doesn't make you right.

LTI

"You have on a number of occasions connected NAV with the ability for HFEL to maintain a dividend level."

YOU are clueless and he doesn't mention NAV. He is saying that the yield generated by the underlying companies does not match the yield paid by the trust. This has nothing to do with NAV. He is also factually correct. HFEL churns the portfolio to create the yield, alongside the options trading. Facts are facts. Wake up.

Nice to see the share price having moments of being above NAV per share. Still liking the holdings here and the strong income focus.

Saba, a note of thanks to you for becoming a shareholder and finally bringing the manager and board to account. For decades the manager and board have used this trust as captive capital for their fees. In the meantime, shareholders have suffered abysmal capital performance. The trust has also failed on its income mandate, the current level being 5.5p per year. It was 5p per year 15 years ago and has been outstripped by inflation. Please see it through and make sure these fools are no longer entrusted with other people's money.

This trust yields 11.8%, but I can't see that many of the underlying holdings yield this. Can anyone tell me which holdings yield 11.8% to create the covered dividend? Here are the top holdings:

China Construction Bank

Oversea-Chinese Banking

Brilliance China Automotive

China CITIC Bank

Macquarie Korea Infrastructure Fund

DB Insurance

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing

United Overseas Bank

First Pacific

MediaTek

The above holdings are 31% of the company, but none of them yield 11.8% or more that I can see. Can anyone please advise?

I see your point, NicetoMichu. Yes, long term holders are feeling some pain (at the moment). I am new to CLS Holdings, buying just after the sale of Spring Mews Student was confirmed as legally binding (27th March). So I am significantly down in percentage terms, but this is the first time I have bought a company and been comfortable with a significant initial loss. My feeling is management have a clear plan, and I actually like the Mortstedt family ownership; the theory being that they provide a layer of oversight of the board - they will not want the company to be put in a position of peril as it represents a large proportion of their wealth.

My only concern about the large family ownership is the possibility of delisting from the LSE if the share price remains depressed. It's becoming fashionable for REITs to move to a TISE listing, which is truly despicable in my opinion.

NicetoMichu, you say "here's hoping", but I'm not sure there's much hope required. Anyone buying at these levels is investing in Prime city property at a fraction of true value. The management team are competent, and because it's just the UK operations that have REIT status, they have the ability (as shown) to cut dividends and ensure the debt servicing and capex requirements don't destroy the business. I think anyone buying at these levels will be very happy in 5 years.

Looks like I won't get them for 50p! I guess at some point the market will wake up and smell the coffee. At the moment the rental income target of £130m is 54% of the market cap of £241m. Ridiculous.

LTI, My apologies. I am not seeking to offend you. It's just that I saw that you have been buying CLS stock all the way down to its current low, so painful for us both. You've done the same with HFEL, so again this is painful for us both. If you've done well over the longer term, then well done and more power to you.

LTI, I would also be happy to see the dividend cut to zero if it secures the future of the company and means a high yield in a few years time. I believe the management to be competent, and they know how to allocate capex efficiently.

LTI, which listed commercial property companies have a higher LTV than 50% where the level of debt is deemed acceptable/comfortable. And if the LTV isn't high then why are CLS looking to sell assets to reduce LTV?

LTI, you really need to calm down and not be so abrasive. I appreciate you have lost considerable sums on this and CLS Holdings, and emotions are high, but we're both in the same boat with these investments and a respectful tone among fellow shareholders is appropriate. All the points I have made about this trust are fully qualified. To assert that what I am saying is nonsense is a bit on the obnoxious side. Good luck with your investing.

@Salty1Pete, What are you talking about? The share price hit an all-time high at the end of February. Total return over the past 5 years is 64%. It's not blow the lights out stuff, but does what it says on the tin.

@Therosy1, Options trading is not easy, free money. When the option writer (HFEL) has to oblige a call it retains the options premium and hands the capital appreciation to the option buyer. This converts capital in to income and creates a loss for the company versus not writing the option at all. It is a form of gambling on short-term share price moves.

When an investment trust is handing back capital as dividends, it is eating itself. The hope is that the underlying holdings perform well enough to mitigate this effect, otherwise in time the dividend will be cut.

Crossing my fingers for you. All the best.

My feeling is that it could certainly go down to 50p. With the dividend being circa 3.5p going foward, at 50p per share this would be a yield of 7%. The LTV is high, but the loans are non-recourse to the company and the lenders will take comfort in the dividend being cut to increase interest cover. There is value here - it's just a matter of waiting for key events to occur and the market to understand the potential. The discount to NAV is astonishing for prime property. Maybe this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (or maybe not!). One thing I have learnt along my investing journey is that my judgement is not as good as I think it is!!

The yield brought me here, but after a closer look I find it too opaque to invest in. If a default occurs the reaction will be unpleasant, I feel. Good luck to all holders, though.

I bought at 108p, yesterday. With the discount to NAV and 10% dividend yield my feeling is that I've bought in at a good time, but what the hell do I know. Usually when I buy a stock it falls further.

I think we all feel the same way, Sterling. But as LTI says, it's impossible for the downward trajectory to continue forever. At some point sanity has to return. Surely anyone who bought at £1.25 and below will be pleased they did in 3 to 4 years time.

Any guesses on the annual dividend going forward? I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 3.5p, so as to have the case for the development opportunities.