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I am still whinging.
3i, which I bought around the same time as Lloyds, but sadly only a few compared to the latter, have gone from about £2 or maybe £3, I cannot remember which to £27 +. Adding around 9% just today.
Lloyds, as I say which I have bucket fulls of, I have a b/e of about 60p, and 3i have paid a divi all the same time, whereas Lloyds have not.
I am sure lots have similar 'if only' tales as they backed the wrong horse, but as I have never sold or traded either, just shows what a difference in wealth on choosing can be.
Whilst not being in Lti's bracket, It would have been nice to have been a millionaire, despite it not buying as much now.
So, Lloyds is still rubbish for lth's, imo, and as we have seen many times, the fragile gains can, and have vanished, so easily, and with Labour and car claims a cert, why would we expect anything else?
I am sure many others have little faith in Lloyds holding onto a gain, but don't wish to jinx or urinate on others fireworks but this time, who knows?
Truth is even at break even, with YEARS of inflation, the buying power will mean will need far more than my break even to 'break even', but hey, lets all pretend we choose well, less ego damage to ignore facts.
...shares I have never complained about holding.
If ONLY I had put the money I have into Lloyds into 3i, which I purchased around the same time, I would be very comfortable. Held them both for around 15 odd years, and STILL down on Lloyds, with a b/e of around 60p, whereas have a b/e of around £2 or £3 pound, perhaps less on this one. AND this has always paid div's, not so Lloyds.
Still, I'm not one to grumble........................much!
Guess we all have tales of similar wrong choices..
There is no money 'saved' until the money Lloyds has spent on 'buying back' the shares, is recouped in around 17 years time.
Example they 'save' about 2.8 pence, for every 50pence share they have to purchase to destroy.
So that will take Lloyds, 17 years to break even on that spent money.
This is only an aprox amount as savings on the savings etc will lower the time in reality but, point being it will take YEARS to show any savings.
Be like you paying a ten thousand pound a year on rent, then deciding to buy the flat instead, for £100,000, and someone asking you, "how much have you saved", Nothing till ten years has elapsed, all things being equal.
But, worse than that, the dividend money that Lloyds DON'T then have to pay out to shareholders on the bought back shares, is in their hands, to do as THEY wish.
So they 'could' pay more divs, or they could use it to better their salaries, pensions, car pool, office refurb, please HMG by throwing it to the great unwashed car scammers, or anything they choose, and still, as they have, pay us the same sum as they WOULD have anyway, without any buybacks.
Hence my distrust of having the board choose what could have been my cash if the buyback money was issued as divs instead, for them, the board to decide how it is 'best' spent.
Imo, we have more chance of Looney and Dudley having an affair, than EVER seeing a penny of Rosneft cash come back to shareholders.
Because even if Russia agreed to release it, you can be sure a whinging bunch of do-gooders, would, with the help of our 'wonderful' BBC and other media, portray images of limbless children, tearful elderly in Ukraine, and BP pressured by 'green lobbyist' would hand the lot over, like a misguided 'Danegeld' in the vain hope that it would ease pressure from protesters, and HMG to tax those in the 'dirty business' of keeping us warm, driving, and paying huge amounts of taxes to keep the daily flotsam and our own takers from society eating and housed.
Yet war shares such as BaE are never criticised or burdened with stealth taxes, windfall taxes or hoards of protesters howling for their demise.
Sick to death of companies bowing to protesters and those who have no right to even be here.
No wonder BP struggles against such powerful resistance of a gullible media brainwashed public, with an diet of harrowing images of war victims or Polar bears stood precariously on a slab of floating ice.
Profit is now a dirty word, as handouts, compo and entitlement replace such as a more popular words now.
MVarawa
The problem with 'importing' so called cheap labour into the UK, is that it is 'only' cheap for the employers of such.
For whilst they can keep wages as low as the law allows with a higher workforce, WE the tax payers then have to fund the cost of a home for each of them. With homes costing a fortune no matter how small, and IF the 'newcomers' are on minimum wages, (otherwise they are not 'cheap labour) then clearly, they will not be paying much or anything into HMG coffers, only a token gesture.
So already a negative asset for the country to subsidise. Then, as they are on a low wage, they will claim universal credit, which then means they get their rent and council tax heavily subsidised or free. They can then claim for free dental care, school meals for their numerous offspring, uniforms, transport to schools, extra help with food and energy costs.
All will have free NHS treatment, all entitled to extra if having a disabled child.
So you can see WHY they risk their lives coming here, and can see why HMG who are likely given funding from 'grateful' employers of such, allow it to continue, as it is only us lot who have to fund, live, and compete with those who are no gain to us, and huge amounts are involved in the most awful crimes, not grateful for living in a country where they are given all the rights of the indigenous, but use our kindness, which they see as just ''weakness' to exploit to the max as they do our weak laws and sentences as their ilk fill jails so full that never again can meaningful sentences be given to any but the very worst in society.
Whilst the only thing of any use to us is,, they keep up house prices, the negatives far far exceed the positives, but sad it takes an election for it to 'suddenly' become apparent, and then ONLY because the silent majority are sick to the teeth of seeing our culture ruined, as time, will make it ever worse, and never better now. So unforgiveable imo. They have lost my vote forever now.
So Lloyds hit if you never blinked the magic 50, but all must be asking, if it is all going to plunge as it has so many time before very soon.
Still around 30k down here, WITHOUT the inflation desecration added in, so no bunting out here.
Lti, I understand that if you trade, then more money can be made, or lost, depending on knowledge, timing, luck, and external events.
I just bought in years ago, reinvested the divs for a while when re started, but now just take the div, invest it in Lgen, Av, etc or in bonds now. For I fear this is too 'played' and I understand the 'market' dictates the price, BUT the 'market' does so on investors 'perception' of good or bad known, or expected news affecting Lloyds sp, and we all know that 'news' with careful wording can sway investors buying or selling , and with HMG still so influential decided to spread the risk.
Have a lot of these, and like farming a volcano, the yield is great until it isn't, so imo scatter some of the seeds eleswhere.
As you know I hold iii, for a similar time as held Lloyds, and three i' has risen in that time from around £2 i think, to £25 , AND paid good divs all that time, whilst Lloyds is still not at my buying price and has not always paid a div.
Guess hard to be grateful for still having less than I did in here after 15 ish years. ( IF, I had put the same sum in iii then over a million now I think WITHOUT having to have traded it, and the yield would be massive on divs.
Yes my fault, my mistake, and my reason for not jumping for joy that Lloyds is still around £30,000 still less that what I invested ish.
Gold is $2177 oz, so more way more for every shovel full.
Lets hope the US doesn't allow the gullible Brits to do all the costly research, locate the stuff, then pull the plug on funding, thus then getting 'their' own mining area back cheaply, and work it themselves shafting us share holders big time.
Only time will tell I guess.
Mostyn, Obviously Lloyds paying out 1.84p for each share, will drop the share price by that exact amount BUT only if everything else is equal.
As sentiment plays a huge part in share prices as always forward looking, then the share price is more dependant on what the market 'expects' will happen for 'good, or bad' to dictate the share price.
So known out flows of money on divs is no surprise, and if 'sentiment' is good going forward, then it ought to quickly recover, however if bad, then it will fall by the amount of the div and the severity of the 'expected' future estimated damage.
Imo, news is 'used' and think that with big institutions have such sway of s.p they and that has more influence to create sentiment to bring it up, or down, so imo, always a loaded dice unless your are in the know or lucky.
Others will little doubt have 'other' wrong views.
Re my comment and typical Lti reply : Mind my gold is doing well'
and his reply "about the same price as 45 years ago - inflation adjusted"
Yet my Gold has more than doubled in a few short years, whilst his 'faultless' Lloyds is STILL ten pence less, that my break even price from around 15 years or so, ago.
And THAT is without taking off the huge loss in capital buying power of the sum invested due to years of inflation.
So although a few short years of loss here have been mitigated by the dividend on the few years it has been paid, it is still for lth, not traders, a far worse bet than Gold has been in my time scale.
Like any factual data, it all depends on timing when comparing the chalk and cheese investments, but to double my money on Gold, and still be in loss on Lloyds, despite holding it for longer, it hardly to me, a reason to rejoice, only to say atm, my losses are less than they were here.
I would love to know what price Lloyds would need to be to know the TRUE break even point allowing for inflation.
Golds rise is a concern, especially with the interest rates paid out by banks, bonds etc reasonable now compared to the near zero rates not so long back.
Feel it is more to do with a US 'inspired' European war, to get them out of debt, at the cost of Europe; AGAIN .
The link suggests the reason for the dumping of stock could be political as thankfully Mr Trump is looking good to win, and imo, the only hope of the West receiving the kick up the backside it so needs, with this open door policy.
When the most powerful man in the world says something, then, at least those below in pecking order, can, at last, speak freely about the past 'mistakes', whereas they dare not if the leaders is all for past flawed policies.
Shame our Tory Gov have become so Labour ish, that they are now not worthy of voting for, if you desire a harder line policy, but to Labour supporters they are not 'soft' enough, so the worst of both worlds, HENCE I suggest they are deliberately going to loose the election to make a later 'vote of no confidence' in the 'then' Labour Gov, for the Tories to then ride to the UK's rescue, but ONLY with a 'new deal' for closer ties with the EU in hand, much resembling the 'deal' we had when in the EU.
Anyway, perhaps a crash is coming, as rising prices of shares, can be a way for the elite, with the large institutions talking up shares, to 'get out' at a good price as the plebs scramble to 'buy' their cast offs, wrongly thinking, 'at last' a reason to invest as all on the rise, until the rapid painful drop.
Time will tell, and, like farming on a fertile Volcano, most KNOW it is going to blow one day, it is a question of 'when' and if you escape singed or burnt to a crisp.
We all KNOW who will have timed it all to 'perfection' and it won't be me.
Mind my gold is doing well, but a tiny amount compared to shares.
Enough discussion, for now
Re: "cancelled shares to date will save £3,875,318.23 from the Final Dividend payment".
Whilst no one can argue with that, it is what Lloyds do with it, which, to me, is of concern.
Whilst the choice is theirs to make, most shareholders would like to see the div increased by a higher percentage than if this 'saved' cash were not their for distribution.
Yet HMG and the close board may prefer to use it on other charity cases, which, IF such avoids a more damaging windfall tax on banks, may of course be justified, but likely, with Labour in the waiting room, we will suffer both.
Feel we need far higher rates of dividends than is currently being given here to encourage investors in, for the risk of suddenly loosing a huge portion of your capital in an uncertain world, needs a far greater risk/reward ratio.
So can't see many putting an extra 5k into an isa choosing Lloyds with its decades of woeful capital appreciation, which then, IF such is repeated into the Labour future, only gives the dividend to 'save' the tax on in an isa, and as a cash isa is not far short of Lloyds current div, the risk to most will never justify putting all eggs in a fragile basket imo.
Gold up nearly 5% in less than a week, without HMG buying it back and destroying it too ! ( A joke) .
I guess the war drums are beating louder by the day. Best Tippex any Gold molars if going into inner city areas, the knife, gun or acid will be replaced by a pair of pliers soon.
I wonder just how much flotsam, should conscription start, be joining the ranks, or left to empty shops and fill unwilling wombs whilst it rages for those who are able or forced to go and fight?
Got a feeling the Army will be needed here as more danger from within.
Interesting times.
Another issue with buybacks being used to calculate so called 'returns' to shareholders is of course, if you require the 'returned capital' you have to sell some of your holding to receive that 'gain'.
But of course you then have less shares to receive a future dividend on, or to 'rise' in value via the next years buybacks.
Yet with a dividend you own share count remains the same, or you can re-invest it and own more shares to compound future div amounts.
People like institutions and large holders like lti outside of isa's clearly don't want to pay tax on div's, so prefer buybacks, but the paupers here, like myself prefer to have the div, as all my shares are in an isa.
But my mine gripe is, whilst less shares COULD mean a larger dividend can be paid to the shareholders, the 'choice' of doing so is still at the discretion of the board, who, imo, will prefer the use this 'extra' saved div to find means to improve their lives, as will HMG by using larger profits, in a vain attempt to buy voted by being 'generous and kindly' with OUR money by helping the wasters, unfortunate and ever growing amount of arrivals, to 'appear' more caring.
Easy thing to do, spend someone else's money to appear kindly. I guess many fall for it as is apparent by those who can never ever find fault with the institutions they love, be it Lloyds or a political party. I hero worship no-one and am out for 'me', so whilst invested in Lloyds have no problem highlighting what I see are it's faults, the good points aren't a worry so no need to discuss them, as the profits show they are doing ok, it is HOW the profits are distributed which is my issue.
Ps, so you will see, we will get LTI, dissecting the post, and ignoring the truth, but cutting and pasting out of context lines, in some vain effort to diss such.
I will save him some effort thus: " but never will, be proportioned out to the shareholders"
His reply likely be, " So Chid thinks that none of the profit is proportioned out to shareholders and then give the percentage of div and buyback gains .
But my point was WE should be getting far greater sums of div, which is spent elsewhere .
The 'Problem' is Brix, like we see with certain holders of Lloyds, these people are 'afraid' or embarrassed to admit 'their' past mistakes and so the 'blinkers' come down, and they then can't bring themselves to vote for any other party, no matter if their life long party has failed them, and another 'seemingly' offers something better.
They show the same level of behaviour with Lloyds shares, and won't hear a word against such, despite almost all large fiscal institutions saying what a bad investment it has been for lth's over the years.
So they defend the mistakes, as it is seen as a 'personal attack' upon them when any are questioned or highlighted.
Hence the dislike of me on here.
No matter, deep down they know they are wrong, but can't admit it.
So all you get is insults, not sound words to contradict your views, proving what I say.
As like today, I see yet ANOTHER HMG inspired cash grab from Lloyds shareholders to fund the feckless. It won't be coming from the CEO's salary, but from profits which COULD, but never will, be proportioned out to the shareholders, only AFTER any new HMG pleasing 'cause' is FIRST funded.
I have been saying so for years, and, been PROVEN right for years.
Would not normally need to say so, but with the anti-turth brigade out in force, sometimes it has to be said.
As I say, buybacks may mean less shares, but that won't necessarily mean the larger pot will be distributed to shareholders when there is countless 'causes' HMG and it's puppet can fund to aid the economy first.
But those happy with divs close to bank interest rates, without the risk of capital being lost, are welcome to their ever joyful, Lloyds can do no wrong, opinions even if mistaken.
Mvarawa, problem is, I know what I could buy now with one share, but can't remember what I 'Could' have bought for the 60p odd which I paid for them at the time.
As I say, somethings have gone up massively with not only inflation but like houses because of supply and demand out of kilter, so can't hope to get an 'accurate' price, just interested where I 'need' to be which as TFE suggests is a lot higher.
Whether Lloyds will hold it's gain, or the rise is more due to fake hope to push the price higher, to pull in buyers as those 'in the know' re the Car ppi type claims, know we will be hit hard, and are 'getting out' on the rise so as not to take such a hit, leaving buyers regretting their 'cheap price' if the bottom drops out of it.... again.
Buyers can be attracted equally be a low price, or as now, a rising price, but whatever, the person selling usually 'feels' that it has reached it's peak for a while, whilst the buyer feels it has more legs.
As every seller needs a buyer and vv, then either the seller if rising, or if falling the buyers, will be slightly miffed or more so depending on the 'level' of the drop or rise.
Anyway bed time soon so back to disagree or bore another day. Night all
Hardup
Re: " As I have said before, you could talk a glass eye to sleep. "
As 'I' have said, if you find it 'all so dull' then use the filter button, it is big enough to find.
Still reading 'me', thought so, so take best count sheep, for there are aplenty on here at times.
SUFC
Re: "You know she is a better stock picker than them me"
I am not so certain she is. Didn't you end up buying Millet's share every day for a week, until your realised her Millet bunch had fallen from its holder onto the floor.
Hope you made a profit on them, but a little tip, should your advisor give more tips, AVOID searching for any company called CUTTLE-FISH, as it's not a branch of Weirdfish!