Member Info for Castaway

Mrd if you want to project your anger at someone I think Shetty and his co-conspirators are better than Rastuss, he is just giving his opinion. He has a point if we weren't in a limited company the shareholders would be responsible for the $6.6bn debt as well as losing all the value in the shares.

Mrahman - the banks have had time to consider the situation, even as a profitable going concern the business would probably not be able to service $6.6bn of debt and IMO after looking at the accounts the profits do look large for a healthcare business, as MW suggested. Maybe the banks have reports which also suggest this?
Bank's are not equipped to run businesses, they just want as much back as possible and to move on.

Sorry Mrd - i don't see anything for shareholders - the lenders will take all the value and even they will take at least an 80% haircut, I doubt there is much more than a $bn in the assets in an admin fire sale, if the true indebtedness is $6.6 bn, the outlook for all is grim - well except Shetty!.

Rastuss there were many posters informing this BB about the risks, but at the time it was not clear how bad the situation was and the company had hired Freeh etc. in an apparent bid to clear their name - so it was either a problem the company would recover from or a complete fraud! - it turned out to be the latter, how many FTSE 100 companies have been complete frauds? and the s/p was very cheap if it wasn't a fraud.
I was aware of the risks I have been in a few shs like NMC and I have usually done well bottom feeding - you have to understand you could lose your complete stake when trading this type of situation.
Even the great adzy eventually went (cautiously) long !

Belhoul is fighting for his position, he and his backers want to take over NMC and ADCB would not appear to want them or they would have cooperated and not applied for admin. It is PR to fight the administration, we will have to see if it works. I think ADCB have made up their mind though and it's not for Belhoul.

adzy, there is so much to understand with NMC, the huge debt. lack of clarity about shareholdings and how the debt level got so large and for what reason? - hopefully we will find out eventually, won't help shareholders though. I do hope the perpetrators get some pain from this however unlikely.

IMO this is why MW got to hear about NMC - Shetty was hawking his shs to borrow against them last summer - why pick on NMC all of a sudden?

No Rastuss - the agreement re the loan against his shares was a classic one frauds commit - he borrows against his shs and he in effect gives control to his creditors, he still owns the shs but they have the right to sell them if certain criteria are met, this is why I believe he had no clue how many he had and thinking about it maybe he has lost it and some scurrilous people where abusing him? - no cynical me thinks he knew what he was doing and it was his last hurrah before disappearing to luxury in India

Rastuss - I am a natural cynic Shetty et al - guilty as hell.
RTO - Reverse Takeover - small entity takes over a larger one - not a chance here IMO
I agree also with the shareholder value principle - why should we be below the banks - however we are - Caveat Emptor, shareholders - most to gain most to lose.

Rastuss re debt, it would have been very difficult to build up $4.4bn debt in the short term IMO - people get wind of companies after loans - I heard recently, Shetty was offering his shares as collateral for loans last summer - why?
He was trying to bail his company out via private loans, (no evidence of this) or he was finalising the fraud and extracting every last $ of his company for himself. We will find out in a few years.

Rastuss, LSE is missing posted content tonight, so I am doing this from memory (not good in my case!).
Basically I think Shetty and the top guys are all guilty of fraud and the independent directors looked the other way or they were negligent. I do not see how this could be argued against bearing in mind the level of non disclosed borrowing which did not appear to get to the company ($4.4bn). Shetty said he coached the Butti's in interviews - If he is innocent he will return to the UAE soon to protect his good name - IMO this is highly unlikely. Let's see, but right now IMO the cabal at the top of FIN/NMC are all guilty. As soon as I saw the RNS on evening of Feb 26th I thought this was screwed for shareholders FCA have handled this badly yet again, they should have let this trade and given shareholders a chance to get something out (which looks highly unlikely now). EY are culpable and IMO I will avoid any even potentially slightly dodgy company audited by them. As usual shareholders get ****ed. With the devastation of CV, NMC will probably be lost in the storm, but I have learnt lessons from it and the CV depression yet to come. GLA we need it!

deos, administration means the company will be put into the hands of the "administrators" experts in retrieving value from a company for the stakeholders. Unfortunately as common shareholders we are pretty much at the bottom of the pile in the list of entities who get any compensation from the administration. This does not mean the company has gone bust, but in the current situation I would be surprised if that is not the eventual outcome. I am sure NMC hospitals will go on under another leadership, but with $6.6 bn debt what is left for shareholders in a business with assets maybe worth a $bn under the current situation.

I fail to see how Shetty is not up to his neck in the fraud his wife is a director and he has a son in senior management . He may pretend to be a village idiot, but you do not make what he has without being a very shrewd operator, many get from rags to riches by illegal means and he fits the MO.
I bet there are a lot of people at the top of EUA society feeling pretty sick right now, this is a massive fraud and IMO all the senior management are at least guilty of "looking the other way", though I suspect the top people in FIN and NMC are probably guilty of fraud as has been stated!
NMC didn't build up the extra $4.2bn of debt over night it must have taken years and that was hidden from the market - Shetty could have been planning this for years - if he was so innocent why did he eff off to India?

I like the way your thinking Mrd, would not surprise me if that is going on - Shetty using the Butti's remaining shs and backing them - could be why ADCB are opposed. No doubt he is after screwing the banks as well.

Rastuss - OK I get your point I can see why he won't want to have defrauded the Indian banks.

Rastuss - I found your comment amusing "Or they may choose to pay them back from their personal cash holdings."
They have just committed a multi $bn fraud - I really don't think they will be paying anyone back from their own pockets - unless they are convicted (after many years) and even then tracing the money will be impossible - Shetty owns FIN and had access to all their various money transfer assets - the money is already laundered and distributed around the world and won't be traceable - Shetty is 77, I bet he is dead long before he faces a trial.

Mrd, that was the FCA as per usual not protecting shareholders - they should have let this happen without suspension. How can shareholders control their investment when they cannot trade shs in a company they are invested - same as the crap about stopping accounts being published as the market has changed in the last few weeks, they trust shareholders to invest but don't assume they are bright enough to understand a changing market - total bull****!

Rastuss, I agree however IMO lessons will be learnt from this as they should. Tough for NMC shareholders though. I am all for personal responsibility, however in this case the risk should have been small.

I have "done my nuts" as the saying goes, by investing heavily in one stock, I also made a fortune in the same stock. If you want to invest/trade stocks there is one way to learn and it is the hard way - you learn by your mistakes or you stop trading.
I think shareholders in NMC have been let down by EY, the LSE and the FCA and they need to be held responsible for this fraud.
There are obviously risks to shareholding, but on the FTSE 100 companies should not be complete frauds - there is obviously a systemic problem in the fact NMC were allowed to get in the position where the company owed $6.6bn and no one was aware other than the crooks at the top!
The auditors EY and the directors should be held responsible IMO. They may claim they were unaware but as the auditor and directors they should have been - they just got a big fat paycheck and let it go on probably.

Yes Rastuss another healthcare provider will pick up the hospitals for peanuts. I was looking at Neopharma yesterday and wondering how much debt they have. I cannot see that Shetty has not done the same to that company also.