Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
' they actually advised HMRC to reject any restructuring proposals coming from Rangers and to appoint them as administrators instead'
But at the time it was widely reported that it was Rangers who appointed Duff and Phelps, not HMRC, who didn't want D and P appointed, and asked the Court of Session to make the appointment, which they refused to do.
But fonters, you're a kindly chap, surely you can dash off a brief summary for the unsophisticated folk who have somehow missed all those thousands of posts - and an example as well please.
It seems so strange. The official gazette says 'The company cannot be sold on, as it no longer exists. You can buy assets of the business ... ' Have they got it wrong?
I do have serious problems with WRN coming out of liquidation - I don't see how it can happen. Perhaps someone can explain the process, with examples of similar things happening to other companies.
Incidentally, predders, I forget to wish you a happy birthday yesterday. One big candle to celebrate your nearly 3000 posts.
As I pointed out in my last post before it was swiftly deleted, the BDO report was discussed on this very same thread when it came out. That makes it old news. I guess this post will be deleted as well.
Literally last year's news as the article is dated 10 December 2018.
Does this mean the previously intended private prosecution of Stevenson is not going ahead? What happened to I will notify readers as soon as Mr Stevenson has been served with the Summons.' (26 July)?
And if Mr Earley successfully sued someone, who would receive the damages?
Well that's funny - I thought I had posted a comment that people could judge for themselves whether I was talking hot air, but it hasn't appeared. Strange.
Well predafesters, I think I said this before, but it will probably have been deleted, I follow this saga precisely because it is unique, as you so often say. The noble resolve, the conspiracies, the tortoises, the charity for helping men in trouble, the ramping, the trolling. the upticks, the whatsapp group - what's not to like. And now with added miracles ... - superb.
Predafesters - what is a viral/snowball effect please? Are you talking about building a real business or is this just about creating a share price bubble and hoping to get out at the right moment this time?
You are right about this being unique though - I don't think anyone has ever promoted a comany the way Earley does.
Perhaps you could give us an executive summary of the implications. How would any money reach the shareholders of WRN rather than the creditors?
Actually my last post was irrelevant - BDO are reporting on the Rangers liquidation not WRN so it wouldn't help WRN shareholders if Rangers shareholders got a payout (which they won't).
The WRN shareholders' hope (fanciful IMO) is that somehow some of Rangers' assets might come to them.
WRN is in liquidation, Festers - creditors come before shareholders. So far they have had less than 4p in the pound, so shareholders will be a long time waiting.
How does any of this affect WRN shareholders? There are many more mouths to feed before they see anything from this.
They appear to have cash flow issues
Cash flows from operating activities
Receipts from customers 175,261
Payments to suppliers and employees 1,248,370
Maybe someone who understands accounts can explain how that squares with the profit figures quoted. Personally I'm very keen on cash.
I assume they would not have announced their figures today if Whetstone were not about to take up their options. Boom, sizzle.
Nice to have my very own thread, thanks predders.
To pick up a few points - long running liquidations are not unusual if there is litigation and/or regulatory investigation going on. It's not necessarily a good thing.
I don't wish holders best of luck or worst of luck. They should be able to take the rough with the smooth, as I do, if not, they would be better not punting on shares like this.
I do not know Mr Stevenson. I look forward to clarity on whether and how his alleged misdeeds contributed to the failure of WRN. I am not holding my breath though.
You are right on one thing, predders, this is a unique situation and that is why I follow it. I don't think that unique equals good for those invested.
And I am fascinated by the dynamics of forums like this - the catch phrases (HC&R), the subtle and blatant ramping, the people who appear and become prolific posters overnight, the people who always appear together, and why does the squidster always get more upticks than anyone else?
Well you see, predders, you have to distinguish knowledge from theory. It is definitely known that WRN entered liquidation - this is usually seen as a sign of failure by the directors, hence my use of the phrase failed directors. At the very least they failed to fight off the tortoises, but the regulators may identify more serious failures.
It is also known that liquidation tends to be terminal and irreversible.
There are various theories about the gifting of shares - that it was a way of attracting small shareholders to a new investment company which no one would otherwise know about; that it was an exercise in pure philanthropy by noble and resolute people - I expect other theories exist. But at present they are just theories - I have my own opinion, and I expect you do as well.
As I have said before, if litigation raised a huge amount of cash, the liquidator would use any surplus to pay a dividend to WRN shareholders before completing the liquidation process. They would not (and should not) allow the failed directors to use it to start what would actually be a completely new venture with the shareholders' money.
It would be possible to buy any assets WRN possesses out of liquidation, but basically there is no business to resume. Just a name.
If Whetstone grows its business, then getting a listng is unlikely to be a problem, but first things first.
SS, you talk of WRN resuming trading but I don't understand how this could happen. If the liquidators could raise loads of money from litigation, which seems the only way, I assume they would A pay themselves and the lawyers B pay creditors C pay a final dividend to shareholders - don't forget, it's your company. There would be nothing to resume trading - no staff, no assets, nothing. It's just a name.
I think years rather than months. If the legal claim was successful, BDO, with HMRC behind them, would probably appeal, perhaps all the way to the Supreme Court.
What this claim is about is that instead of HMRC and Rangers' business creditors getting some payment, it should go to some asset-shufflers, albeit ones renowned for their nobility and resolution. The higher it goes in the legal system, the more likely the court will look at the morality as well as the precise construction of sub para ii of para B of sub-section.....
Worthington is in liquidation so only the liquidators can give you an authoritative statement of the current position.
To quote the Official Gazette: 'It is important to note that you can’t buy a company that’s in liquidation, as it’s no longer an entity, but you can still buy its assets.'
As I understand it, Worthington's only assets are the legal claims. I guess they could be sold, then the liquidators could wind up the company, but that does nothing for the WRN shareholders.