The latest Investing Matters Podcast episode featuring Jeremy Skillington, CEO of Poolbeg Pharma has just been released. Listen here.
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Do we know if we will receive any indication of how the COVID trial went after 29 days or wait until the endpoint of 60 days ? Do they normally report pretty promptly?
Hi bewise, EUA is a very different kind of the investment...
If you are interested in a PGM miner, then I guess you've also looked at JLP (Jubilee Metals) and SLP (Sylvania Platinum)? Both have a much lower market cap, and look on paper as pretty good options. I've often wondered about JLP. I think PGM prices will increase if hydrogen vehicles really take off. The only miners I have are RIO (obviously large cap) and SGZ (Scotgold).
I hope you manage to decide what to do. The risk you face - like all of us - is giving up on VRP/VRNA then only to see the thing finally come good after the results of the Alabama Covid-19 study are published.
Cheers AGBR,
Like most on here, to sell up would be a major loss but i am really undecided on what to do..The drug itself has proved itself over and over again so i do really believe in it and the C19 aspect could create the momentum for the sp to really rise. On the other hand i could cut my losses, i am having a serious look at EUA at moment and i could divert whats left of my funds into this stock.
Hi bewise, I've often read your posts over the years. I think you post good insightful ideas.
Since you mention believing in the drug; I have to ask do you believe in it?
I guess you like to be able to trade when it suits you, so being locked into a USA equity really wouldn't suit. Do you think you'll convert or just sell up?
Thank you.
Well guys, its not reallya complete shock for vrp to delist and trade only on Nasdaq though i would rather they did that after C19 results. If you believe in the drug then let your shares convert imo. The down side is loss of the ISA status and the currency exchange rate $/£ if you wish to trade. The upside is possible success of the C19 trial then of course P3 results. I am still deciding on what i will do..
Of buyers returning-which helps a lot if your holding on!!
I'm not really relaxed about the move to ADSs as the only trading mechanism. When we're off AIM there will be even less governance! This is from the September RNS, where it talks about what coming off AIM means to shareholders:
"The Company will also no longer be subject to the QCA Corporate Governance Code or be required to comply with the continuing obligations set out in the FCA’s Disclosure Guidance and Transparency Rules (“DTRs”) or, provided the Company’s securities remain outside the scope of the regulation, the EU Market Abuse Regulation (“MAR”). In addition, the Company and its shareholders will no longer be subject to the provisions of the DTRs relating to the disclosure of changes in significant shareholdings in Verona Pharma."
At least they are up-front about it.
I must be asking for trouble, but I've decided to hang on to my VRP shares and let Halifax convert them to VRNA ADSs. My reasoning... I think the Phase 3 status and the 16 clinical trials performed to date reduce the risk of the formulation NOT being successful. Their business plan looks reasonable, and the market opportunity looks pretty big. Once they start marketing the product in 2023, a $1Bn market cap should be achievable. Nasdaq should give Verona a higher valuation.
I can believe that the anti-inflammatory and improved lung function characteristics of Ensifentrine will help Covid patients too.
In the past I’ve looked at Synairgen – it’s a very similar product and the company is comparable. VRP/VRNA has the same market cap as Synairgen but SNG001 is at Phase 2. Comparing the two offerings is interesting: SNG001 appears to improve lung function/volume more that Ensifentine (2.21L versus 400mL) but SNG001 is earlier stage and doesn't have the same anti-inflammatory properties as far as I can see. I think Verona is probably lower risk.
Postive move to leave aim.
Not so much manipulation on naadaq .
Look at the movement on here and the spread .
If you want to be a major pharma player ita nasdaq al the way ..
Image an investor in usa checkimg out verona and see it an aim listed company..
They run a mile
I am totally relaxed about the drop in share price at the moment. Obviously some people are having to sell because their brokers don't deal on the Nasdaq. Being unsure on the process of the change, I rang the Share centre trading team yesterday and was assured that once the form mentioned in my previous post is completed and returned I don't have to worry about the AIM price as I will be able to sell the same share on the Nasdaq at their price. I hope it continues to fall in the UK so I can snap up a few more at a bargain price.
I wonder whether the Verona board just got exasperated with the UK share as it was one of perpetual profit taking even after excellent results, and this drags the sentiment down as we have all seen on this board.
With regards to the trials, I have always believed in the potential for this drug even if Covid trial fails, I think the long term prosepects for this share if all the trials so far are to be believed are fantastic with the share price to increase in many multiple. A successful Covid trial would be a Glace Cherry on the top.
Any thoughts on this as the date draws nearer.?
Positive or negative comments about the drug trials etc and continued development seem to have dried up.
Now it’s about how ****ty the company are and how badly we have been treated as ii’s.
Surely the chemistry hasn’t changed at all even if the reliability of the board has to be certainly reconsidered.
Am I missing something with all these sells tho I notice a few buys reappearing! BH.
I invested in VRP 5-6 years ago and have stuck with them through the ups and (mostly) recent downs because I had faith in their research, as best as I could understand it and their management - and this is how we are rewarded.
Yet again, this is how AIM lets down investors. We are faced with having to accept ADRs or sell. It's been clear for some while that the newish Executive management do not have the interests of investors at heart but AIM have stood by and allowed this change of residency, without a whimper.
Maybe it's time for a renaming exercise? Alternative Investment Casino? We all know that AIM is a riskier investing environment but clearly there should be a warning - Invest here at your peril.
BTW - I've lost and gained on other AIM shares. It's not the 65% loss here that bothers me, it's the complete lack of AIM oversight on this delisting exercise.
Like you I’ve been in it to long now so as long as the Share Centre come up with the goods I’m staying for the long haul as well!
Thanks AGBR. I'm going to let Halifax convert to ADS VRNA and continue to hold.
Won't buy any more shares, but been in here too long to walk away.
In effect, the move to delist the AIM shares is one step nearer to taking the company private.
General info: If you use Lloyds or Halifax and hold VRP shares, you don't have to do anything. They will simply convert them to VRNA ADS units and put them in your trading account. this starts on the 19th October. Shares are consolidated 8:1 to the ADS units. Any odd quantities of shares (i.e. not multiples of 8) will be refunded as cash. It took Halifax too long, but they got there in the end.
I'm not going to bother with VRNA. I think it's all just too dodgy. To me it represents an aggressive move by a private equity business to take all the IP within the old UK Verona business out of the public markets. In the process they have forced UK private investors to liquidate loses accrued to date.
Hi BoPulist and all other interested parties, I've just finished talking to Lloyds/Halifax. It was a very good conference call with a member of Corporate Actions and a member of the customer services team. The headline news is as BoPulist said you can't hold the ADS (VRNA) in an ISA. This is because the underlying shares are no longer traded on ANY recognised exchange. This is why they have lost ISA qualification. The VRP (CREST/AIM) most of us hold is the actual share, VRNA is just a package of 8 of them. It looks like the shares themselves can only be traded privately after the 16th. Nasty!
Have at last answered my calls e-mails etc and have promised some action by the beginning of next week.
I only hope they keep their word now.!!
Hi BoPulist, HMRC/Govt Tax Policy defines what can be held in an ISA. It really isn't within Halifax or any other broker's remit. However they can decide which shares they make available on their trading platform. So once having decided to convert VRP to VRNA, they then have to comply with UK legislation and allow their customers to hold VRNA in an ISA.
Lloyds Direct investments (i.e. Halifax with a Lloyds badge) are ringing me tomorrow morning to talk about VRP delisting, and I'll check the ISA situation with them. I'll report back as well. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if we get contradictory responses!
The certificate is okay as long as it is electronic or you will struggle. Good luck to you all glad I got out when I did.
I'll check with them tomorrow, but suspect there might be more to qualifying than simply being listed as an ADS on Nasdaq.
Will report back on what they say anyway.
Hi BoPulist, if a stock is eligible for an ISA that's all there is to it. Halifax can't legally convert VRP shares to VRNA shares then force you to hold them in a trading account. I would push the point with them and speak to someone in authority.
Have already read that AGBR, and it did seem like they qualify, but as I said Halifax won't keep the shares in ISA.
They are saying default position will be to transfer into a standard sharedealing account and even create the standard account if you only currently have an ISA account.
Maybe it's just Halifax's position, but haven't heard if any other broker who has confirmed VRNA can be held in an ISA account, and would be supprised if they would.
+44 (0)370 707 1083
Spoke with Barclays Smart Investor help line today. Guy tried to help but if you are in a SS ISA you are going to have to transfer to another provider within the window of opportunity if you want the new provider to complete the switch to ADSs.
If the transfer doesn't complete in time Barclays will still sell your holding on the final day of trading and credit cash to your account.
I have plumped for them to convert the shares into certificated format which will guarantee Barclays cannot sell them which is there default position. If i get the certificate in time I have been assured by ii that I can send the certificate to them with the appropriator CREST form and they will add it to my account and I assume convert them. Interactive investor have not issued their corporate action yet but as they allow you to hold NASDAQ stock in a trading account and Barclays don't then my guess is they will convert shares into ADSs like Halifax are.
Computershare will ultimately be responsible for acting on any request to convert certificated shares into ADSs whether this is while they are tradable on AIM or afterwards so at least with a certificate I don't find myself being stuffed by having to sell and then rebuy with the hideous spread and at worst I might incur some charges and tax but nothing like what the sell and rebuy cost would be.
Just my view and I would value any further info anyone else has.
BoPilist - VRNA does qualify for an ISA. It's an ADS - American Depository Share. Go go the gov.uk site. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/stocks-and-shares-investments-for-isa-managers#qualifying-investments-for-stocks-and-shares-isas
I cant remember her name but she was in customer service the form arrived today and it is.
Substitute form W-8BEN
It describes itself as - Certificate of foreign status of beneficial owner for US tax withholding.
I've just spoken with a very knowledgeable and helpful lady at Bank of Scotland Sharedealing regarding the transfer process and it looks like this will not be straightforward as the shares need to transfer from X-O to B of S
Apparently the conversion to ADSs will take place on the 19th but the shares will need to be in the account by the 16th.
I asked the question regarding a late arrival of the shares and apparently dealing in VRP will cease on the 19th so if your shares arrive after the 17th, too late for conversion, you will have two days to sell them before dealing is suspended. If they arrive after the 19th, you will have ten days to transfer them back to X-O in order to sell them.
Under normal circumstances, share transfers take up to six weeks so I think I'm kidding myself that the transfer will take place within the time scale. It seems that all stages of the process depend on Royal Mail rather than electronic communication so it's likely that 4-6 weeks is not an unrealistic time scale.
It looks like the only safe option is to sell VRP, transfer the funds to B of S and then buy VRNA after the 19th.
Do you think the MMs realise this? Maybe this is why the bid / offer spread is 16%. B**tards!