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Alf
Fair point, well made, wholesale was the wrong word to use.
But, if you look back at life before H&B when we were the only ones selling FF+, so the numbers were easier to pick apart, the reality was as follows :-
Revenue from FF+ : 73k
Cost of goods : 23k
Selling and distribution costs : 24k
So, our costs to sell FF+ were 47k on a revenue of 73k
Packets were being sold at between 15 and 20 quid, call it £17.50 on average, so, for every £17.50 of revenue, we had costs
of just over £11.
Of that, roughly half was cost of goods, so about £5.50 a packet
BB
I knew i would find it again.
28 Jul 2014 From bodybuilding warehouse.
"The interesting thing with Prime - in addition to open ingredients profile, decent dosages etc - is the addition of FruitFlow. FruitFlow for what it's worth, is a crazy, crazy expensive ingredient. It's over £500 per kilo (no joke), and for that reason, has never been included in a pre-workout (or any supplement in the bodybuilding world. When you look into the science behind how it works, and not only the claims but the means behind how it works, it seems to make perfect sense if your goals is performance and recovery. It's also been shown to work with just 150mg, so as much as it's ridiculously expensive, you don't need a huge amount to get the benefits."
https://www.tmuscle.co.uk/threads/redwings-reviews.21084/page-3
6,666 doses in a kilo = (more than) 7.5p per dose to a DSM customer back in 2014.
Would be good to get some up to date prices.
Bern,
I know you like lengthy posts attempting to sat out the business model of Fruitflow. But please, please, don't persist with your claim that Fruitflow packs cost a tenner wholesale. Please. All that does is show your complete lack of knowledge of how product pricing is arrived at.
If you look at it from the income we received from DSM in the last financial year , (£233,000) then at £1.50 for a packet of 30 capsules then that would indicate sales of 155,000 packets which is possible , if you take 1p a 150mg dose x 30 = 30p a packet then to get £233000 from DSM sales would have to be 776000 packets possible but unlikely imo
Kev
You're missing the point a bit. If Fruitflow's £350 / kilo ( and it might not be, that's a guess based on info that Gixer got years ago when it was £500 / kilo ), then that works out as about £1.50 for a packet of 30 tablets.
But any tablets will contain more than just FF, so total ingredient costs will be more than £1.50. Add in manufacturing costs, distribution costs, marketing costs and general overheads and the cost of getting a packet on the shelves soon adds up. Chances are the total wholesale cost of a packet of FF+ is in the order of a tenner ?
Then take into account that we're not taking a share of DSM's revenues of Fruitflow sales, but a share of their profits, and that theoretical ( aka guess ) cost of about 5p cost to the client per tablet for the Fruitflow in the tablet will translate into a much smaller amount of profit per tablet to be shared between DSM and ourselves.
But, as Wellsite says, if DSM shift enough stock, then it's all a bit academic.
BB
You are wrong. There's are going to be a lot of people with post coved symtems which lour product should help
Provexis/DSM have blown their window of opportunity to mass market the benefits of fruitflow now and the anti clotting nature it provides. Why have they dont nothing in the past year with this amazing opportunity that was handed to us. We now have a vaccine on the horizon and therefore the opportunity has been lost. Utter clowns.
Gixer
totally agree, doesn’t really matter if 0.5, 1 or 2p a shot. A couple of million users world wide is all we need. However I’m with Wheelds in so far as I think we’ll be bought by ByHealth ( they wouldn’t renew the AA with DSM and hence get exclusivity).
W$
Thought it would be more than 0.5 or 1p for 150mg. That works a 30p a month. It's £14.99 or £19.99 a month for FF+ so someone would be a nice amount and not us. Or am I working this out wrong. Has been a long day at work though
Wellsite
Yep, well, kind of.
50k GBP for 700 kilos works out at nigh on exactly 1p per 150mg, but, personally anyway, I think the numbers I used are on the generous side ( from our perspective ).
Mind you, on "standard" margins, I'd be surprised if it was less than 0.5p per dose, with presumably a fair bit less that that per dose for large orders from the likes of By-Health. However, even if Seriburn "only" came to 25k a year, then you wouldn't need huge amounts of similar sized orders to start making decent inroads into our losses.
At some point you'd hope that PXS will eventually become a cash cow of some description. How long that'll take and how much of a cash cow it might become, should eventually allow us to be valued on reality rather than speculation.
BB
That’s about 3000 per month so a slight improvement over last months !
Thank you. Your order has been received.
Order number: 152352
Date: 11th November 2020
Its all guess work wellsite. :-(
Gix/BB
Looks like you are landing at 1p per 150mg shot coming to us ?
W$
BB,
My guess work came in around the same as yours lol.
So maybe not quite as good as I first thought but its still a fair bit of FF
Seems strange that they don't include the quantity of FF in each packet as they do with the other ingredients on the front of the box. Adding these ingredients up* comes to 4,390mg. 610mg short of the quoted 5g.
*like you, I need to get out more lol
Gixer
Total guesswork, but, say it was something in the order of £350/kilo now and say it was 700 kilos a year => Revenue to DSM of 245k ?
Operating margin of maybe 20% and gross margin of maybe 60%. Not sure how the definition of profit in the AA might sit in that, but call it 40% => 98k to share ?
A 50/50 split may be generous, but that'd be ~50k ?
Must admit, I'm not convinced each of those sachets has 150mg of FF in them though.
BB
It was seeing this that got me all nostalgic, was crying with laughter in the first half !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r3sCnbs31zo
I know this is really out of the blue but wanted to show a friend that PXS downfall of Hitler spoof, does it still exist?
I invested here from (at the time) 3p to 12p (well 17 at one point but missed it) about 10 years ago (under an old account) and saw it then, was a classic of the genre.
I still think my figure of 213kg will be about right.
If Serybox can keep sales at these levels then that would be 639kg a year.
Question is, what is pxs cut from this?
Last indication on price I had for ff2 was £500 a kilo but that was years ago from one of DSM's smaller customers.
Manufacturing costs have probably come down since then.
I peered at zoomed in images of the box earlier today, and, rather annoyingly, although you can see each sachet ( ? ) contains 115mg of Vmix, there's no indication, in English anyway, of how much Fruitflow a sachet contains.
As Doc Horrible says, it'll likely be apparent how much of a big deal it is when the Interims come out next month. Quite fun* to guess though ( though it plainly won't take us into profit ).
BB
*plainly, even in normal times, I need to get out more
1 packet is 5g and contains
Pumpkin (domestic), red bean powder (domestic), organic cactus fruit extract powder (France, organic cactus fruit concentrate, gum arabic), corn beard extract powder (corn beard extract, dextrin), tea extract powder, moringa leaf powder, a Ronia juice concentrate, Medusa V-mix (bellflower, hairy root stem, sapju root powder, pear scented leaf, bokryeong scleroderma, swallow bean powder), bromelain, papain, seribox V-mix [plant mixture enzyme-treated extract (pumpkin Protein powder, beet powder, maca powder, organic freeze-dried aronia powder, alpha amylase, protease), dextrin], and Fruitflow tomato
Take 1 to 2 times a day, 1 packet at a time with enough water.
https://www.serybox.com/shop/detail.php?pno=884D79963BD8BC0AE9B13A1AA71ADD73
We don’t know whether unit/package means a single sachet, pack of 12 sachets or pack of 28 sachets. Major difference. We don’t know how much money PXS get per KG. It’s all good news and makes an excellent reference for the DSM Sales Team. We’ll find out at the end of December when we see how much income has jumped by.