We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
"would even be so bold"
should of course be
"Would not even be so bold"
T321,
I cannot, and would even be so bold as to even attempt to speak for Rupert, but didn't he attempt to answer generally the concerns of investors in the post of mid September, on another board.
Mid September isn't that long ago.
I too share frustrations, perhaps some investments could have been better timed, and never would I have thought PRIM would drop so low, but the macro economic situation, possibly to get worse, UK political uncertainty, and the international situation, possibly to get a lot worse, Ukraine/Taiwan etc, are weighing on markets. And PRIM is vulnerable to those movements.
I guess it depends on your patience and timeframe, but Rupert's may in both cases, be longer than most investors.
Times are trying, but hope and opportunity spring eternal.
Wasn't Apple almost written off once, and Microsoft binned by many investors, many years ago? That would seem unbelievable nowadays, but it happened.
Interesting article in the Sunday Times today -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-stock-market-falls-and-recessions-are-good-for-the-young-wxwdsl2fr
behind a paywall, but you get the gist from the headline.
I've been investing in tax efficient type funds recently, and it has improved my investing no end - I haven't made money, but I haven't lost much either, unlike with my individual shares which all look very sickly. PRIM of course fits the mould of a very small fund.
I wouldn't seek to offer investment advice ever, but smallish regular investments in out of favour funds, or even at the more daring end of the investment world, shares like PRIM may offer significant rewards over a 5/10 year timescale.
But I do think Rupert has set out his stall fairly clearly.
Rupert - from around mid September 2022
Well, I have been reading some of your comments with interest.
Clearly with the macro-economic situation and an acute cost of living crises then people are finding times hard. With the disappearance of free money, a consequence of this will be investors having to liquidate positions. This clearly is happening in the small cap sector and Primorus is not immune to this either. What this is doing is creating a large disconnect between mcap's and NAV of companies.
It is up to individuals to decide which companies are better placed to deal with this downturn. I am a firm believer in the ability of investors to buy and sell and markets will find an equilibrium. If you have cash at the moment, then I believe history will be kind to investors as long as they pick the right stocks.
We have spent 2 years restructuring this company into what I believe now is one of the leanest investment companies on AIM. Our cash burn is relatively low, we haven't felt the need to raise any cash and in fact we are one of the few companies still investing- as in the Interpac deal announced this week.
Not all investments will be a success in the short term, but we possibly have a slightly longer time horizon than some investors. It’s as much about getting your timing of selling as buying.
Yes, it was us who sold GGP in the 20's and yes it was the old board who bought GGP. Nobody get every trade correct on timings but over a period and with a correct balance of investments then dividends will pay - and yes, we are one of the few AIM investment companies which is the board chooses and we feel it is the correct decision for PRIM shareholders we can pay dividends/share buybacks.
I notice talk about BBM - well we managed to independently negotiate a good deal to change our investment in MUST to a CLN in BBN. This has given us the ability to convert some at a profit and run the rest at a 10% interest rate. It’s about managing those investments which don't always work with those that are.
We strongly believe in the likes of FRESHO/PAYAPPS which are extremely well-run companies and we believe excellent value. The likes of CPH2 we believe are the future of the transitioning period and we have the firm belief that they will be very successful.
As always, I don't want to comment individually about your posts as everyone is entitled to their view, but clearly there are some very misinformed posters.
The line of communication is always open and please call or email -contact on our website. I’m generally quite friendly and welcome a discussion around our investments good or bad. It’s your company also so if you have a query get in contact rather than incorrectly speculating.
I wish you all well in these difficult times. I hope I have allayed some of your fears. Best Rupert
@PrimForAll / Rupert - you read this forum, what is your plan for this sp that just keeps dropping? Investments in Rambler and Landore have more than halved. What is the catalyst for growth?
Thinking of topping up but not sure I have the patience!
Looks pretty good apart from Nomad (appears to have no value on the list of investments) but there are quite a few companies trading at large discounts to NAV.
Amendment
For BMN & Loan Note, I should have said it was £1,208,988. This does not alter the total £6,176,421 or £9,694,391
RKB
No value attributed to most of our assets
Going back to June 2022 I have used the same value of our assets as I did then, or I have used the most up to date value of either their current share value of Friday 7th October 2022 or what we paid for the investment as per RNS.
Engage £2,032,228 (92,374 @ £22)
BMN & Loan Note £1,369,205
Alteration Earth £250,000 (5 million @ 5p) ALT
SOA Energy £99,897
Clean Power Hydrogen £820,000 (2 million @ 41p) CPH2
Rambler Metals & Mining £82,500 (1.5 million @ 5.5p) RMM
Nomad Energy £300,000
Sport80: £100,000
TruSpine £63,194 (1,805,554 @ 3.5p) TSP.pl
WeShop £302,500
Stream TV £238,000
Supernatural Foods £11,427
Mevie Ltd £69,375 (223,790 @ 31p)
Rogue Baron £8,313 (831,358 @ 1p) SHNJ.pl
Landore Resources Plc £150,000 (1 million @ 15p) LND
Interpac Ltd £250,000 (42,735 @ £5.85)
Cash-in-hand about £100,000
The cash in hand is an estimate because as at 30/06/22 we had £420,000 and we invested £250,000 in Interpac Ltd.
All the above assets are technically worth about £6,176,421 excluding the two investments in Fresho & Payapps, which if you were to include them, we have conservatively assets worth £9,694,391.
Our Current Market Capt @ 2.4p is about £3,355,943
There is something fundamentally wrong with AIM and how small market capt companies are valued. One day maybe someone will realise that we are grossly undervalued and just take us PRIVATE.
RKB
With no value attributed to:
If you agree that two of our assets are valued correctly then this implies that we have no value attributed to:
Engage
BMN & Loan Note
Alteration Earth
SOA Energy
Clean Power Hydrogen
Rambler Metals & Mining
Nomad Energy
Sport80:
TruSpine
WeShop
Stream TV
Supernatural Foods
Mevie
Rogue Baron
Landore Resources
Interpac Ltd
Cash-in-hand
RKB
PS you can find a detailed list of all our current investments at
https://primorusinvestments.com/our-investments/
Fresho
I posted about Fresho on the 10th of June 2022
Fresho: We currently have 3,415,723 shares bought over 4 rounds at prices of A$0. 27 A$0.38 A$0.475 & A$0.575
Paid in total A$1,575,941 and using the most recent funding round of A$12 million @ A$ 0.90 you could say our shares are worth about A$3,074,150 an increase of about A$1,498,210
Using todays conversion rate of A$1 = £0.57p then our Fresho investment is currently worth about £1,759,274.
Update: From June to October 2022 the AU$ exchange rate has not really changed (according to Google) but the last part of the 10th of June 2022 post has changed.
Our Current Market Capt @ 2.4p is about £3,355,943
I also posted on the same day the valuation of Payapps of £1,759,274 and today I calculate Payapps to be worth about £1,758,696
Taking only Fresho & Payapps they are worth about £3,517,950 which is currently worth more than our Market Capt.
RKB
PS This is another slightly different link to the one posted by Testing321 on 24th May 2022.
https://www.thefoodpocketguide.com/2022/06/interviews-news/fresho-food-supply-chains-james-andronis-huw-birrell/
Hi Greg not that I'm aware of
Would be great to have eyes on their accounts, is there an Australian version of Companies house which done charge for access?
Fresho has just reached its 15,000,000th order!
Reflecting on where we started and where we are now, this is a remarkable achievement and we are incredibly proud of our growing team across Australia, New Zealand and the UK.
As we continue to strive to transform the food industry for the benefit of the people and the planet, we’re looking forward to what comes next. Stay tuned.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/fresho-_foodtechnology-foodindustry-fresho-activity-6984026339955621888-t_Lu?
Transaction in Own Shares
I advocated yesterday that Rupert should commence buying back our own shares.
This morning on the main London Stock Exchange RNS feed there were around 159 RNS Items (when I looked) and of those 45 were headed “Transactions in Own Shares” (or something similar)
You could research why a Company would want to buy back their shares and I input to Google, and it said:
“A company repurchases its shares when it wants to consolidate ownership, preserve stock prices, return stock prices to real value, boost financial ratios, or reduce the cost of capital. Investors can benefit from stock buybacks because the practice has generally taken the place of dividends.”
I could add numerous other reasons why Primorus Investments Plc should buy-back their shares, but I will let you do your own research.
RKB
Yes, it was yesterday.
RKB
1,338,281 Tuesday 12th October 2022
Is this a misprint?
No because Rupert reads what we post here. I am a loyal shareholder (long term) but there comes a point when our BoD have to act.
Start supporting our share price and buy back our shares.
RKB
Hi rkb I assume you've put the question to the BoD / Rupert?
Share Statistics
Good Morning Skittish.
After you posted that there was £20K worth of buying 800,000 shares yesterday and a similar purchase in March, I reviewed my data on the Prim Trades from the 1st of July 2022 to Tuesday 4th October.
I believe my data is accurate but LSE Main Website has been down a few times over the months and I have had to manually input the data from LSE South East.
There have been 66 Business Days and 2 Bank Holidays within the period of analysis.
There have been 13 Business Days when no shares were traded.
The total shares traded on the 53 Business Days was 13,523,288
The average shares traded on each Business Day was 255,156
On 3 Business Days over 1 million shares were traded:
1,338,281 Tuesday 12th October 2022
1,162,886 Monday 12th September 2022
1,023,056 Wednesday 10th August 2022
On 24 Business Days there were less than 100,000 shares traded.
There were 205 Trades on the 53 Business Days and within those Trades there were:
4 @ 250,000
2 @ 200,000
13 @ 150,000
29 @ 100,000
17 @ 50,000
5 @ 40,000
2 @ 30,000
8 @ 25,000
2 @ 20,000
6 @ 15,000
4 @ 10,000
I am at a loss as to why Rupert is not buying back our shares. Our total assets and cash as of 30th June 2022 was £8.23 million. We all know our Investments are worth a lot more than they are within our accounts.
We purchased some shares in Interpact Ltd last month and spent £250,000. Would it not have been beneficial for our balance sheet to have kept the cash and bought some of OUR SHARES as we could have doubled our £250,000 because the Market is valuing OUR COMPANY at £3,495,774 (139,830,968 * 2.5p) after our 8.78% rise yesterday?
RKB
PS I can no longer put a “Strong Buy” on our shares as I only want Primorus Investments to buy our shares.
Someone possibly spent around £20K buying 800K PRIM shares this morning.
Similar to a purchase which took place in March 2022 at a much higher price?
If so details shortly, or not, as the case may be.
Will be interesting to see how NZI performs after readmission, totally different BOD to Alte though!
I should add that NZI is in the process of a RTO, and has been since mid May, but they deal has yet to complete, so no completed investment since it listed.
ALTE website for those who are interested -
https://altearthplc.com/
I'm not sure action is imminent (although it may be, I don't know) but NZI with which Rupert Labrum is also involved (as a major shareholder - 29%) is yet to make any investments, and it is over a year since that listed.
Maybe they are waiting for the prices of investee companies to decline? Presumably the price of anything which generates electricity is high at the moment. This has recently caught my eye, obviously a fairly dynamic market is forming -
https://octopus.energy/press/octopus-energy-backs-mega-solar-farm-in-morocco-to-power-7-million-heat-pumps-with-cheap-green-power/
https://nziplc.com/
Lots of housekeeping on companies house this evening. Maybe something brewing.
Thanks for your input guys. There's clearly embedded value here despite the heavy fall in Rambler since the interims. Surprising that the board aren't buying more with the sp at this level.