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“€195m per week cash burn“
And still you repeat this lie?
Fugazi1: it is your wild dream, it won’t fall to 142p before results!
€195m per week cash burn.
Refinancing package to be announced.
When is 200p arriving Zelda?
What an embarrassed.
Going red again.lol
Wheres the 200p zelda? You're more rattled that a rattle can. What a du m bo
"where is the 150mil a week being generated"
- Total Revenue H1 = 2.2bn euros (about half from passenger sales)
- Additional cash from advance ticket sales not included in revenue = just under 1bn euros
- Sale of properties = 0.2bn euros
This gives most of what you are looking for (only 'need' €140m per week)
Green line again= little fugassin frustration is growing. His reputation is in tatters!
BB, you were talking about it , not me! 13.43 post!! you suffer from memory loss!
"Back to your £140m a week."
?
What are you talking about? What 140m a week?
142p cometh
RI also cometh.
However you want to call it in terms of net, where is the 150mil a week being generated? You are trying to claim that IAG has only been losing 50mil a week in the operating environment it has had for the last 6 months or so? So the huge drop EU operation and almost no long haul only creates a loss of 50mil. Seriously? A drop in capacity of the order of, what, 70% for EU and 90% long haul and only a net loss of 50mil?
Again, if that was the case, there would be no talk of refinancing by the city or the company and the sp would be at least double. At the very least!
BB, as your income might just be the uk state pension, that does not mean everyone else gets that little!!!
Back to your £140m a week...each passenger would pay on average £400 per flown sector, doable!! As my first/club flight prices range from £3k to £10k a pop, you will find that my calculator works...you eed to get new batteries for yrs, me think!
Your post shows how clever you are!!! dyor.
I am not confusing the terms. It's simple.
You spend cash, you receive cash and the difference means you either add to, or need to draw from, cash reserves. You are quoting a figure with only spending cash in, I'm quoting one that includes receiving cash too. At the moment IAG is spending more than it is receiving by around €50m per week (over whole of H1).
But don't take my word for it, just look in the accounts. It's all there including the figures from tickets sales.
OK sundenza, I can confirm your calculator can do simple arithmetic. Do those numbers have any particular relevance to anything? Is this your salary, salary man? lol
BB, if you divide £140m by 350000, that equates to £400. DYOR
Again, you are confusing your definitions. Cash burn is defined as the rate of spending. You want to change the definition to offset income. That is a different measure, it is not cash burn. The cash burn rate from the end of July is 190mil a week and I am not aware of an update. If you want to express the finances instead as a net cash figure, then you will need to demonstrate where IAG is getting a whopping great big 140mil a week from? Again, If IAG were taking in that level of cash, the sp would be very much higher than it is at the moment. Given the how much the EU market has been restricted with the sabotaging, and travel lists, and the virtually non-existent long haul, where exactly has IAG been getting the cash income from? If the net spending was only 50mil a week, it would be wall to wall across the media and oft repeated here!!!!
As you have just posted the FT quoted the €190m pw cash operating cost figure but said "The company is burning through €190m in cash a week, a figure that does not take incoming revenue into account."
So your latest cash burn figure is NOT €190m per week as you state as you have also admitted it is the cash burn figure that doesn't take into account revenue. If you take into account revenue you get the figures reported in the accounts which are less than 50m euros per week as previously stated and easily verifiable.
Overall the cash reserves actually increased in H1 but this was down to net new borrowings.
I don't know what Q3 will bring but see no reason why it should be a multiple of Q1 or Q2.
The last 18 months the SP was driven based on the news and not on the financial results. I think most of the news like vaccine, reopening are announced which means the SP should start to react based on results now.
Although we all see the demand coming in next year and the market is forward looking, we are still not there. The company is still loosing money. This means the SP will struggle in a short term but I expect to soar from January/February
I hope it will not go down too much although this would be an opportunity for those who are waiting to get in
I stand corrected, the 175mil per week cash burn was updated in Jul. To 190mil.
"The company is burning through €190m in cash a week"
https://www.ft.com/content/6108449f-7392-47e7-b4a5-12ebacd03fce
JULY 30 2021
Of course, cash burn doesn't take into account revenue, but the overall point is that the opening up of air travel has been delayed, sabotaged and subject to inconsistent and political interference. You wish us to believe that IAG has been taking in 140mil a week since, what May, June? I would suggest if that were the case, the sp would be at least double it's current value.
So my latest cash burn figure is from 30/7/21 at 190mil (Euros). Has anybody got a more recent one?
You quote account numbers for the first half of 2021. But isn't that where my references come from? I did a superficial search for round numbers to do a very ballpark estimate and those numbers are quite prominent. The source is Reuters, if the 175mil is incorrect, it would have been updated and the only accessible reference would have been the amended article. If you have a reference of a similar reputation (not just somebody's blog or a low level would be journalist) then please post.
You have reference 'net cash flow' but then describe it as 'cash burn' despite my posting descriptions that the two are not the same, as I believe you originally pointed out. You can not derive from the numbers you reference a cash burn, i.e. the rate the company is burning through it's cash reserve. You are quoting cash flow to pay for operational activities which is itself only one part of the outgoings picture, you are not quoting how much of the cash is being used. Your 50mil figure is therefore not valid in this context.
So you are repeating the same false number that Fugazi is except for Q1 rather than Q2 i.e. 175 million euros which got reported erroneously as cash burn in the press (whereas it is in fact 'Cash operating costs') though at least the FT got it right when they reported it for Q2.
The accounts that I pointed you to are up to date as at 30 Jun and clearly give the net cash burn but you chose to ignore that and did a 'deep dive' rather than just look up a number.
The accounts show clearly that for the first half of 2021:
"Net cash flows from operating activities" = -€1.13bn and
"Net cash flows from investing activities" (which includes net capex) = -€0.032bn
Together these give the cash burn BEFORE new loans or repaid loans etc. of under €1.2bn for 6 months.
This is less than 50m euros per week.
So unless you think IAG are guilty of false accounting (in which you're welcome to take it up with the relevant authorities) please can we stick to actual, verified numbers.
@BB,
"For IAG's main revenue market, the return is still a couple of weeks away and a lot of those seats will be vouchers carried over from previous calculations".
Your statement not always correct because:
1) a lot of refunds were made months ago.
2) my friends used 1 and only voucher at xmas 2020. Now purchased a holiday to maldives.
3) I had 3 flights refunded but then booked 2 flights in summer and 1 for this November coming.
Many more examples out there of people NOW paying for flights. Not necessarily always vouchers.
Money is coming IN my friend! DYOR.
Cash Operating Cost refers to a cash flow statement which effectively follows all cash types of business expenditures. ... Such expenses are derived from the firm's information on financial accounting. It does not matter if the expense items are variable or fixed.
https://www.financial-dictionary
Net Burn, often referred to as Burn Rate, is the amount a company is losing per month as they burn through their cash reserves. ... A company that is profitable and generating cash has a "negative Net Burn". A company's Gross Burn is the total cash spent on operations.
https://www.klipfolio.com/metrics/difference/gross-burn-vs-net-burn
IAG, which also owns Aer Lingus, Iberia and Vueling, has a weekly cash burn rate of 175 million euros while most of its fleet is grounded due to restrictions, meaning its focus over the past year has been on raising funds.
May 11, 2021
3:31 PM BST
Last Updated 6 months ago
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/british-airways-owner-iag-boosts-liquidity-with-825-mln-euro-convertible-bond-2021-05-11/
825mil bond in May, say 4 months eq cash burn, so 16 weeks is 2800mil. Even if you add in revenue since July EU flights opening up, say reduce the 175mil per week to 2 months only, that is still 1400mil. The point being the burn rate, the amount going out even under the most optimistic scenario has burned through the bond issue a while ago. And the numbers for the bond issue were assuming a return to full travel by July. For IAG's main revenue market, the return is still a couple of weeks away and a lot of those seats will be vouchers carried over from previous calculations.
There is a reason why 4 brokers made the extraordinary public statements that the company needs a cash call of the form of an RI. Precisely how the finances are to be repaired is the next big question. Red flag for me.
The burn is certainly not 50mil per week, that would mean IAG are bringing in 125mil a week to break even without their main market and with flight numbers only improving markedly over the last month or so with changes o the traffic light system. The burn rate is most likely over the 150mil mark on average since May and they will have been drawing on credit for the last month (I suspect). The bond money probably ran out in mid September causing the broker comments.
If anybody has more recent verifiable numbers then please post, I haven't time to do deep searches or whatever today.
Not knowing the difference between cash operating costs and net cash burn would suggest your opinions are misguided
So sad i can' t read the posts as filtered, little fugassin!! the importance of his posts is ZERO. Lots of green lines which means he is angry!!!ahahah.
" BUY" from me, £2.00 soon enough!!! T5 busy. Flights busy. Wait for Nov , flights galore not to mention Dec! Has anyone seen the number of flights for sale in DEC?? huge numbers. NOT selling anything, only accumulating now. Sold a chunk at 1.83 but purchased again lower. More money, i feel greedy!! DYOR.
Your clearly angry fugazi... learn about business before posting