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Hasn’t it just….
This thread has aged rather well.
You’ve been caught out Welly. We know you were behind the recent share price plunge. Who’s paying you?
ST - I’m sure W99 is not running a simultaneous long/short. I’d expect as much from a student trading robinhood, not an FCA.
@smalltrader
You are a bear of little brain.
My post about free float shares and shorts was actually addressed to KTP but you mother ****er chimed in for that post.
Something really did bug you when I mentioned about shorts and now you are posting garbage about some news leak.
Looks like you have one short position and one long position. If you have opened a short position now then you are going to wet your pants once a good RNS lands. No need to post rubbish to support your short position.
I have seen what you are upto in the last few months. I'm not selling a bean reading your pathetic attempts.
News leaked but Cineplex dropped 15% and K2 took just 1% short position! :-) What a tool you are!
Kickthepuss - it would only be possible if it lead to any positive outcome for Cineworld. Otherwise it's all rubbish. Rarely do any reasonable bearish comments get 'objectively' rebuked.
As Wellington says, it's all irrelevant anyway as it will not lead to any material financial or reputational impact.
If people think it’s impossible for a judgement to leak they are living in a fantasy world, it’s entirely possible if not probable, there is no way she will be typing up the ruling, the majority will be bland standard stuff punctuated by her comments, thus offering the opportunity for said comments to be shared for reward !
Gotta give each other respect and the space to express plausible opinions and objectivity rebuke them if you feel the need.
I started the thread as a bit of fun, it actually added another plausible explanation to the conversation….is that exactly what our BB is for?
GLA
@smalltrader
Calm down.
Mummy has made chicken nuggets tonight.
And she might let you back into her "special place" if you are a good boy.
After all, that's your métier.
Just to put this topic to bed -
Cineplex went down by nearly 15% after K2 took the position in CINE!
Go check their price on google.
Utter rubbish to say a fund like K2 increased the short on leak of news! If there was leak then why have only 1% short you fool?
Barbara is the one who decides the outcome of this case. Are you saying that she made a decision and whispered to someone or has shown her decision or let someone to see what she wrote?
Wellington you are full of horse ****.
CINE lawyers did a fantastic job. Their expert senior KPMG president's testimony was the final nail in the coffin of Cineplex.
Wellington said Bond release is priced in when SP was in high 60s. I said it wasn't and later SP went to 84p.
When I said there will be a trading update, he said there will not be any update this year from CINE and boasted talking about difference between US companies and UK companies but made a fool of himself when CINE gave a trading update.
Of course he will forget all the above and will continue to post garbage.
If you are frustrated seeing SP not moving to higher highs then better stay away from the board and go and see a movie instead. We will see a repeat of 50s to 120s by March.
@LPD - Thanks, there's a lot of confused thinking here and it's a bit of a word soup, but if I can cut through the emotion, your premise is that no one outside the Judge (and presumably her Chambers) can possibly know anything until the putative release date?
That's really quite Special.
Wellingto99 you are normally a lot more precise in your postings than this. I have seen the length of these judgements as it was I that posted the AB Stable ruling which was 242 pages long for a 1 week trial and came a month or so later. Ours by comparison was a 4 week trial that ended on 3rd November and there will be reams of Oral evidence, Transcipts of Legal arguments, written submissions and volumes of Discovery questioning and the answers to go through. Far too early imho and your comments seems somewhat defamatory towards the judge whom I personally thought gave very little away. You could just as easily have said Polar Capital heard a whisper in Judges Chamber just prior to them increasing their stake.
We were clearly told both sides get notified the day before with the ruling released the next day outside market hours. For that reason I concurred with the reasoning of the Cineplex comments
in your earlier post and a couple of months time frame.
Nah mate, definitely market manipulation. The hedge fund analysts on six figures are on here earning a little extra cash by trying to wind up a small group of retail traders.
@smalltrader You are the living embodiment of the axiom "Empty vessels make the most noise"
Large organisations (such as the Ontario Courts) have many people who are privy to confidential information.
Usually, that only relates to really rather dull cases with little implication for publicly traded companies.
This occasion is different.
It is entirely possible that a low level functionary has seen or heard something that contains market sensitive data and then either passed it to a friend "who knows about such things" or been paid for that information.
This has nothing to do with 'Barbara'
BTW having just been (virtually) in the Court of Chancery as the Claimant (Client rather than Solicitor or instructed Counsel) I was struck by the difference in quality between our lawyers and those in Canada.
The claim I was pursuing was only for a few hundreds of thousands of pounds (on behalf of the company I work for, not me peronally alas) but the quality of the Judge and Counsel for both sides was genuinely impressive.
I watched the Cineplex/ Cineworld case (only around 20% truth be told) but I did find it by comparison quite poor, and 'Barbara' was deeply unimpressive. She seemed to be led by Cousel by the nose, and had little to say on the matters of law but was more pre-occupied by process and timings.
So what you say?
I say, that I doubt that a judgement in this case will be allowed to stand as precedent for other cases and it will be appealed all the way up the tree.
So sadly, I don't think that this will be the end of the matter.
Although happily, I think that should she dismiss the arguments of quantum on the claim, that will stand, but the general principle as to what constitutes "Orinary Course" will be decided elsewhere because of the ramifications.
As to our interests?
If it comes down to c$10m either way, then the cloud is lifted.
KTP, best way to find out is to go to LSE website (not this one) and download all the trades for today in an excel.
See how many are algo trades and how many are O trades.
Algo trades are the ones used by big funds.
Normal PIs like you and me would just do an O trade.
compare the volume of O trades vs Algo trades.
As per marketwatch website, total free float is 590M shares out of 1.3bn shares. So the balance are firmly held by institutions including Jhango, L&G,Polaris, Mooky's own company holdings.
Now as per Ortex, shares on loan are 158M of which 17.5% are on free float, which is nearly 27M shares. That means out of 158M shares only 27M shares are now available to short further and the rest already in hands of shorts? Our daily volume is now 10M shares. The ones in the hands of shorts are closed or lent by them to another borrower depending on the market situation. Today near 9% rise was because of the wider market rebound and one of them closed their position but near the end of the day has been lent again to another to short. They will have to manage this exchange of shares without breaching 0.5%. Now K2 must have increased their position betting on the uncertainty around the virus. Once the variant news subsisdes or if Mooky throws a RNS on US listing then these shorts will run for exit and will see big spike again in share price.
If you remember one month back there was thread on burn CINE shorts. It went viral on various share boards here on this site and suddenly at 15m trade popped up but the share price neither went up nor down for such a large trade! The thread did made their pants wet!
All we need to do is just buy and hold and not give away your shares.
It's clear as day.....Mcvities don't want to share their biscuits, so they planted a deep cover agent in K2, whispering in the ear of their CEO that Mookie is about to sell all our assets to join the likes of Bezos and Musk in a race to Mars.
So theory’s update. In no particular order.
- MM’ manipulation of our SP for profit……who knows, very possible.
- Big wide ranging market manipulation by a group, Dr’, influencers, investment Co’, independent of government knowledge hence the SA irritation of travel restrictions…….my personal favourite.
- Court ruling leak, Ontario Investment co makes £2.5m move based on the before mentioned leak of Ontario court ruling…..very very plausible, they wouldn’t be “taking a punt that’s for sure”
Any more, just for fun. (Not Funinvestor)
Hello smalltrader , are you having a bad evening.
Mocking no , I was just surprised that after all the talk about how we will win this mainly from you and your mate that people are even considering losing it.
You need to stop being obsessed with me , this will be the 3rd time I say to you today I won't grab the bait.
Me not watching the court doesnt mean I'm less invested, your mate also said he wasn't gonna watch a singe bit but ended up watching the entire show so calm down.
Wellington - your posts are welcome as long as they're positive lol. Let's not ruin the fun by posting anything too level headed.
You have raised the Occam's Razor point on here before but the dramatic hollywood-worthy scenario is just easier on the ears.
@Crumpets - it would be a bigger red flag if they did route it via another party as that shows 'Mens Rea'.
Quite easy for them to explain it away by saying that they took advice from an eminent Canadian lawyer who had reviewed the evidence and thought the outcome favoured Cineplex (which they might have done) or to reverse engineer an algo which said the mathematical conditions of X,Y, & Z said "short the fcuk out of Cine!" (which might have been the case without reverse engineering)
Anyhow, plenty of people have posited that the share price is being played and (erroneously in my view) attributed that to the Market Makers.
I tend to agree that not all in the garden is rosy but suspect that the foul play is from the Hedge Funds, and this just looks like a cake on the worktop with half of it missing and a labrador sat underneath it with the phrase "ain't me wot done it gov" in his eyes.
Occam's razor would seem to apply.
Wellington, enough give it a rest with your theories. There is no way news is leaked. Even FI said news will not be known until it is officially released otherwise Justice Barbara will be rippped off all her qualifications and will sit in a stinking prison.
K2 opened their position last week and if you think it is on the back of any leaked news then you are no different than Pogo stick and others or you are desparate for SP to go up.
Surprised that Bonkers doesn't counter these statements instead mocking those who gave up their time watching LIVE court session and posted their thougths. The most ridiculous thing is that he ddin't watch LIVE court session because he thinks he is not capable but mocks others who posted their thoughts.
Wouldn't it be a daft move for a Canada based firm to short on leaked info?
It just looks so obvious.
I'm sure Cine's team are looking at this intently right this minute.
If they really did have that info, surely they have the links to short the stock through another avenue rather than stick a big red flag over their heads and wave it in everyone's faces.
Which makes me think it's more of a punt on the new Covid strain, especially with Cine being in focus over there of late rather than anything else.
And W99. We crossed but many thanks for that.
Thank you BT - I certainly don't; and even too dumb also to know why on the sells/buys list (I had the blues and reds explained as being maybe red or blue so take no notice) some seem to be Black (Unknown) and some are repeated. I really would like to know who knows what and by whom and by what means. GLA - and always felt "you make your own luck" until I began to take punts such as CINE et al.