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Haha, yeah i did too! Those batteries were terrible, but still for the time great.
The last batteries (uses two at the same time) i bought were about £280 for an RC helicopter.
If you want your lithium to last, keep it storage charged when not in use, if your charger cant do that then just make sure its not stored full or empty
I will have to look at the back of the batteries again,think they are lithium ion.When I was a kid,and had Tamiya rc cars,they used to be NiCad batteries back then in the 80's.The other issue that gets bought up is the charging ,with many opting to get a third party balance charger instead of the supplied original charger.The batteries aren't cheap on drones though,a new battery for my parrot Anafi costs about £70.
Hardly a bug bear for RC, Lithium has revolutionised the hobby. Yeah its not perfect, but i have many two year old plus batteries which work great still in various RC things.
Also most 'proper' drones would use lithium polymer rather than ion
Lithium Ion Batteries are a huge bug bear in the drone community,probably the single main cause for drones dropping out of the sky ( after pilot error).I noticed on the original battery I had with a parrot bebop 2, after 2 years and approx. 100 flights,the battery would discharge much more rapidly to the extent,I could only use it as a spare and short flights.A brand new battery would ensure a flight time of approx 15-20 mins,depending on wind and how fast you were flying.The old battery was only suitable for a flight time of 5-10 mins after 2 years
VV - it is my opinion that this is why the Tesla battery in Hornsdale has had to be 'upgraded' - it may not necessarily be the energy capacity fade that has caught them out but rather the power fade which will make it harder to respond with high power discharge quickly and without efficiency loss.
I'm glad you think so Alfa! My ignorance and your expertise make a good double act :)
Thanks for your reply. It confirms to me that there is a degree of loss in both power and capacity. An increase in resistance (increased inefficiency as heat loss I assume). So scaling this up to grid batteries - purchasers should be aware of this double effect and that initial advertised charging costs, and therefore financial returns based on these running costs, are to be considered a maximum when new.
Not only do the batteries degrade over time but so does the economic viability.
Vauxhall Viva - you ask some interesting questions. As this ( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191731190X ) article makes clear there is not just energy capacity degradation but also power degradation in Lithium-ion batteries.
"The estimated battery degradation (Fig. 7) shows that the battery resistance almost doubled (100% PF) over five years while in the same time 20% of the initial battery capacity was lost."
You are asking a slightly different question which is "is the electrical efficiency of the battery reducing with time also" - as section 1.3 states "The resulting physical effects are typically quantified by energy storage systems engineers using two metrics: capacity fade that affects the amount of capacity a battery can hold and power fade, which is the increase in the internal resistance or impedance of the cell and limits the power capability of the system and decreases the efficiency of the battery. "
The 100% increase in battery resistance (presumably a doubling of battery resistance) is therefore likely to lead to additional electrical efficiency loss, precisely how much is hard to say as there are probably other mechanisms that contribute to loss of efficiency and so it may not quite be a doubling in the energy lost per kWh of charge-discharge cycle.
Alfa or anyone else with a technical insight, I was hoping for clarification on the following related to this thread and lithium-ion batteries in general;
In my initial post I sighted a 2011 Nissan leaf where it's battery was down to 6 bars out of 12. The original battery on the leaf is 24kw. With it now showing as being able to store 12kw approx, does this mean it will charge more quickly and then simply stop charging or will the degrading battery state and chemistry mean that the charging will be become less and less efficient so take as long as if filling the full 24kw, struggling and costing more through an energy loss in the process?
In other words do lithium batteries not only degrade in capacity but also become more inefficient and wasteful during charging as they age?
Well done Mikinaman, you have done exactly what you should have done, sent off a rubbish salesman selling a rubbish system with rubbish equipment. Its no wonder that the renewables take up is so poor! Its double glazing all over again. When we get these batteries sorted out it will all be worth doing.
Had an energy company have a look at putting panels on my industrial units - I 'closed the door' when I was informed that I would have to sign a 25 year lease !!!
When I asked if the panels would get upgraded when technology advanced I was told I would have to have the original panels for the full duration. In my opinion I could have roof full of 'rubbish' after a short period of time that would be very inefficient.
I totally bamboozled the sales person when I asked for a VRFB at the end of the unit instead of pumping unused 'trickery' back into the grid.
I'm sorry to say that I backed out of turning my roof into a big solar panel.
GLA
Personally I am happy with glass based PV panels as glass is a well understood and well characterised rigid and non-degrading encapsulation medium. I accept that there are some roofs which are perhaps designed to only take the weight of some thin metal sheets, in which case the additional loading of PV panels may seem significant. However those rooves will almost inevitably have been designed to take a degree of snow loading and if not if all they can support is a metal sheet will already be horrendously thermally inefficient, so should be replaced.
Bella
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/03/27/sun-king-returns-solar-market-lightweight-ultra-thin-flexible-pv-panel/
I can’t attest to their success.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1120397_purdue-scientists-test-flow-battery-for-evs-claim-300-mile-range
This was covered a while back on here... If scientists can crack the concept of a refillable EVs rather than charging points, life would be so much simpler.
BTW I understand you can't tow a large trailer like a horse box with an electric car...
Currently.. you could sum the various taxes, duties and the like and see 80-85% of what we pay on a forecourt ending up in government coffers.... Electricity is 5%... Since only EVs would want to see a substantial tax as the 35B in petrol/diesel tax take dropping, personally I see a mileage charge being applied to EVs... Easy to get on charging by interrogation.... But people are going to be in for a big shock in the not too distant future
DarrylJ, yes 22kW is the max I can fit.
This will be used to top up. I am hoping to make the most of the higher capacity charges local to home.
Interesting point Alfacomp. EV batteries have gross kWh rating and a net kWh rating. I have also understood that Tesla only use part of the full battery to extend life in my research. This follows for others too.
One of key developments will be fast charging.
Cheers RK
One thing that has been playing on my mind regarding EV's is the taxation issue. Don't wish to sound negative but as I see it there'll be loads of incentives offered by governments during the rollout and implementation phase but once complete and were left with no alternative I think governments will tax us to the hilt to recuperate lost revenue.
Would love to hear your thoughts???
GLA
I'm getting my first elec car on Tuesday. 7kW charger installed at home will mean it still take 7 hours or so to fully charge the 38kW battery - 170/180miles. RK, I assume you're going for the 22kW?
But would love the Porsche over the Ioniq... Haha
https://www.sfpe.org/page/FPE_ET_Issue_49/Fire-Safety-for-Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell-Vehicles.htm
RK... 'Most companies have huge roof space which could easily be covered in Solar panels which would help reduce carbon foot print and help business tax.'
Unfortunately many of these roofs cannot take the weight of current heavy glass panels...
RichK - the question of battery degradation is somewhat obfuscated by algorithms in the Tesla (and maybe all electric vehicles) - the basic idea is that they have extra cells that they can switch in as time goes on to make up for the intrinsic (physics determined) degradation of the cells. This allows the manufacturer to cover up the true cell degradation, at least until the warranty is over, then it is rapidly downhill.
Tricks like that are not going to work for long in large scale stationary energy storage which is why it is so nice to see page 7 of the Avalon presentation mentioned earlier - http://vanitec.org/images/uploads/Avalon_Battery_-_Company_and_Products_Overview_for_Chengdu_Vanadium_Symposium.pdf - that shows VRFBs side by side with Lithium-ion and demonstrates why it is possible to rely upon an expected VRFB life of 25 years plus.
@Ophidian: I can confirm that Lexus have been testing one for at least a year now.
VV Toyota are, I believe, bring out a hydrogen fuel cell powered car this year.
Ophidian