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I'm afraid I don't know the history as only recently started following them but I suspect It's more of what they're doing now - i.e. a fondness for equity raises - and maybe simply not overextending themselves? It's certainly not because they are the most cost efficient (though perhaps their capex spend has been much less than say ARB who have maybe built much more for the future). Their debt is also relatively small (about $25k) so it's not that.
It could something else funky but tbh I'm more interested in where they are and where they're going than how they got where they are today.
I just wish their efficiency was better as it's pretty shabby at the moment compared to most.
“As I said ,no miner would agree its not a race....” Who are they racing? Each other? Themselves? Everyone who mines btc? All using the same approach? - Disagree
“Every miner wants to mine as fast & efficiency as they can.” - Agree.
Two different arguments in one sentence there FP. Now please, no more Malbec interruptions! Goodnight.
Hexam
Did you notice what hut8 did differently to the other miners to be in the position with all their hodl still pls?
"You’ve been here long enough to know PW has no interest in this “race” you speak of."
As I said ,no miner would agree its not a race.... Every miner wants to mine as fast & efficiency as they can.
Are you seriously disagreeing that point?
“I dont expect theres any actual btc miners that would agree with you there limp”
Don’t really care what they may think FP. You’ve been here long enough to know PW has no interest in this “race” you speak of.
I have all the info I need right now, as I say Sept and Oct numbers is when it’s time to wake up (unless grabbing the odd top up!), until then all this is just idle chit chat killing time….back to my Malbec!
In my view Hut8 have the strongest balance sheet of the miner's I've looked at. If they are at all close to folding then Arb must be positively on the brink. Hut 8 can survive comfortably for months without dipping into HODL at all and much longer depending how much they raise from the current program and how must investment they make in growth. Arb meanwhile are likely to need more funds very soon unless they hold up the intel delivery or else they will run of cash and BTC completely.
Personally if/when BTC recovers close to ATHs I'd prefer to see Hut sell at least enough BTC to pay for normal monthly costs but whether by luck or by judgement their strategy has put them in a very strong position of not being forced to sell BTC when prices are very low (like ARB, BITF, CORZ etc.).
Its not a race ..... btc mining !
Its not a race if you don't care about other miners mining the btc before you I guess.
I dont expect theres any actual btc miners that would agree with you there limp
It’s not a race so there’s no need to even compare, Argo doing their thing, hut8 doing their own thing, simple as that, always has been. Sept/Oct numbers is where the interest lies here now, until then…zzzzzzzzzz
Are you for real...
How will hut8 be the first miner to go?
They will have 8k unencumbered bought & paid for btc this month end.
8k btc to get themselves out of any tight spot if need be.
Argo would need to mine 300 btc more than hut8 mine every month for 18 months ( then its the halving) to catch up that hodl. Argo arnt even mining 300btc a month!
Hut8 might be the first miner to go. Let's hope their strategy works
5 years seems a long writing down period for tech.
Surely it will be obsolete before then.
I’m no expert by any means but I’ve had a fair amount of experience with accounting/financing for data centres.
The difference is stnz, miners will not need to wait 10 years for btc to appreciate. ( years & their all done for anyway)
People that have had 100 % 200% gains in a month arnt going to worry about a 20% SP drop from any raise dropped on them to keep the lights on.
Efficiency matters in a bear market when you have no funds.
Efficiency ( with in reason) in a bull run will be next to meaningless when you have keep on to
all your hodl
This is a loose example before anyone points out hydrogen and EV might negatively affect oil prices in a decade.
Shareholders keeping the lights on and paying wages whilst they maintain HODL. What would the market reaction be to SHELL or BP doing this “because oil will appreciate over the next 10 years”
Ah you're right, I was looking in the first column rather than the third, which is substantially lower.
Along with that note that you point out, it has changed for sure.
Whether it is 5 years, or no longer straight line method who knows - I guess we'll find out more with the Q2 results.
Yes the jury is out but the reason I thought it more likely to be a change of schedule is because they used the phrase "Due to a change in estimation technique of the machine depreciation" which doesn't scream of a writing off (which for the very old machines would not be enough anyway and as you suggest, and as PW said in the accompanying video, some had already been fully written down after completing 3 years). They do mention the Core Swap though and that could be significant if they have written off the old machines and started depreciation afresh with the new ones - though as that is mentioned separately it isn't part of the 'change in technique' presumably. We won't know for sure exactly what they've done until the results are published so could be one or more of the above or something completely different!?
Hexam, not sure if depreciation has changed or not.
July was less than June, but they did write off a bunch of machines - or perhaps the 3 year depreciation expired on them.
So jury is out
Or both!
Thanks for the correction BreaconCarreg, very useful indeed.
Let's hope one day in the next quarters
& years you can break even & get the opportunity to top slice or take profits ;)
"Actually 'top-slice' and 'taking profit' are different as taking profit can refer to selling all your investment whereas top-slicing only ever refers to selling a part of it"
I prefer "taking profit" as I can say that to mean whatever it means - that is my preference - I didnt correct him on that hexam.
1x and 2x were my corrections which I think are noteworthy and important to teach him
Good rns
" I'm not up to date on hut but wasn't sure they were going in the right direction last time I looked"
With hut holding at the end of July 7736 Btc.. to agro's 1295 btc
I'm not too bothered if their cost is 1k / 2k more per btc to mine.
No one would be here if they didn't think btc would go up at least 10k more from where it is now.
On a 400 mined btc a monthly comparison in the future, argo would be 800k better off from efficiency
Huts extra 5400 btc holding would gain 54 million from today's price
Yes hols were great thanks!
Yes 5 years would be better for figures and make it easier to compare against other miners. Plus the machines will have a 5 year lifespan so it makes sense. Must be due them shortly....
AB - One thing you may have missed on your (hopefully lovely) hols is something I think we may have discussed before and that is the depreciation schedule. They have done some adjustments (in the last update) and to me it looks like they may have moved to a 5 year writing-down of machines (like MARA) from three. Could be something else entirely though so will be interesting to see what the results tell us. Makes sense for them to do this if they have - as I think we agreed before (though may be imagining this)!
Hexam, yeah 10-15% isn't a deal breaker if it doesn't go well so that sounds good. Perhaps they have ROI'd on these machines anyway.
Still Argo all the way for me though (I hold some CORZ as well at the moment also). We're still to see Helios in full flight.
Hopefully the Q2 results give some positive affirmation. Wonder if they'll add any bonus news as part of the results, although can't think of anything. I remember one of the previous ones there was a strong hint about a potential hosting option for part of the remaining 600MW. Wonder if anything will happen on that front. That was before BTC went bad though so maybe not.