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The fees relate to the fact that SUPR is an externally managed REIT. Atrato capital manage the REIT and levy an annual charge (paid quarterly) for asset and investment mgmt services. Their fees benchmark appropriately against similar sized externally managed REITs based on my review before I bought. I now hold a lot of these having participated in the last three raises - the performance has been very pleasing (though I was enjoying reinvesting dividends while the share price was so low!). Waiting for what I see as an inevitable take out in two years time - happy to clip the 4.8% dividend in the meantime.
It's not boring K, it's just one of those unanswerable questions, unless someone actually asks SUPR to explain and HL's figures and actually gets a decent reply. Some companies are very good at communicating, others just ignore small investors.
Good to hear you are continuing to hold, Hindy. I’m not convinced the HL figures describe the management charges, rather they seem to relate more to the overall costs of running the REIT – which is altogether different (although it would be interesting to see what SUPR say about the figures, if and when you raise them with them). The large value trades that have been going through at 121p+ in the last few weeks suggest to me that there is a lot of institutional buying of SUPR going on at these levels, which I’m hoping is a good sign for the future.
the bottom line is that SUPR management charges are high,they are taken out of the share price,i am up 18% as of today,so as long as they keep making me money i will hold on to them.
Yes, sorry adv11, I know this must be a really boring thread for anyone else. It really ****es me off when brokers, fund managers and others with their noses in the trough try to use my lack of forensic accounting skills to hide their charges. I thought the KIID regulations were supposed to make charges transparent to investors, not introduce another layer of complexity to navigate? I'll shut up now, back to SUPR. Enjoy the weekend. K
Life's too short (smiley face).
Unless anyone can see these charges actually taken out of their cash account, I am convinced that it all refers to charges that the assets of the trust pay out in the daily management and running of the trust.
Of course, the trust is declining in value by these charges so everyone is right to be wary of them, but there are costs involved in running every company of course. The problem now being that some companies, mainly I.T.'s and Reits have to warn of these costs in advance. Probably need to delve into annual reports to get the figures, but as I say, life is too short. Keep collecting the dividends and hope the share price doesn't fall too much.
Apols, my lengthy discussion on this topic with adv11 and seen_it_done_it is on the GSF chat, not here. K
HINDY, my annual charges summary appears in the Spring report rather than Summer, so that's what I'll refer to. In the Charges Summary section 01 May 2020 - 30 April 2021 it states "- Charges made by fund/ ETF/ investment trust managers for managing your investments. These charges are already included in the fund's price, so they aren't shown in your transactions.". My SUPR shares are held in my Fund & Share A/C but I plan to move them to my ISA at some point. The investment report says "Annual Charge for holding Shares £0.00". I can confirm I have paid no charges in-year in my ordinary trading a/c. Further down, it says "Investment Charges - SUPR £15.07". I have NOT been charged for this, and my belief is that this relates to the statement that " These charges are already included in the fund's price, so they aren't shown in your transactions." referred to above. This is all incredibly difficult to fathom (see previous discussions between myself, adv11 and seen_it_done_it on this page) and HL has certainly not helped me to understand what I'm actually paying for, but this is now my understanding of how it works. The current SP of SUPR reflects the net price once THEIR charges (c. 7% or whatever) are factored in, so in effect we don't have to worry about them because we've already paid them.
I hope you are able to follow all this and relate it to your investment in SUPR. I have to admit I hadn't worked this all out before I sold down a chunk of 3i shares without realising that HL weren't charging me the Investment Charges amount, and that effectively this section was for information only. Let me know what you think when you've had chance to review it, I have a genuine interest in fully understanding how this all works going forward (as do adv11 and seen_it_done_it). K
Hindy, it sounds from your most recent post that you’ve changed your mind and decided to hold onto your SUPR shares, despite the HL figures on the charges? It sounds like another HL administrative error to me.
SUPR pay day tomorrow.
check your summer investment report charges summary issued by HL,thats what highlighted it me,a lot more than all the other shares i have.
Yes I found it, did you read my second message from Monday? I can only go by what HL has actually charged me, which is nowhere near 7%. As I said though, I'll be keeping a close eye on it now so thanks for alerting me to it. I'd be interested to know why HL are giving two wildly different figures on their SUPR page - the 7.1% on the "charges" tab and 1.29% on the "at a glance" page?
from my HL account in the costs section,scroll down to average annual charge
5 year detailed breakdown
The following charges are based on an investment of £5,000 within a Stocks and Shares ISA over 5 years assuming 5.00% growth.
Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 Total
HL charges £34.12 £21.74 £21.30 £20.88 £32.41 £130.46
Investment charges £341.55 £310.34 £304.19 £298.16 £292.15 £1,546.40
Stamp duty (0.5%) £24.94 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £24.94
Net initial charge (0%) £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00
Net ongoing charge (2.8%) £136.47 £133.76 £131.11 £128.51 £125.92 £655.78
Incidental charges £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00 £0.00
Transaction costs £180.15 £176.58 £173.08 £169.65 £166.23 £865.68
Total charges over 5 years £375.68 £332.07 £325.49 £319.04 £324.57 £1,676.86
Average annual charge 7.65% 6.90% 6.90% 6.90% 7.16% 7.10%
Illustrative 5 year value £4,864.75 £4,768.35 £4,673.85 £4,581.22 £4,478.49 £4,478.49
Illustrative 5 year value with no charges applied £5,250.00 £5,512.50 £5,788.12 £6,077.53 £6,381.41 £6,381.41
Sorry I can see where those figures have come from now, the Costs tab on the HL page for SUPR. Whenever I query charges with HL they always tell me to look at the "Ongoing charge" on the "At a Glance" page linked below, hence 1.29%. I have to agree though, it's very confusing (again) and contradictory. I'd be interested to hear what explanation HL gives for this discrepancy. In the meantime I'll be keeping a close eye on their charges going forward. K
HINDY, I'm not sure where you're reading that but this is what it actually says on HL:
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/s/supermarket-income-reit-plc-ord-gbp0.01
1.29%. For info, they charged me £15.07 last year on my holding of £2,260 in my trading a/c
I would send those figures to SUPR and ask them to comment.
on HL it says average annual charge 7.1%
Investment charges £1,546.40
Net initial charge 0% £0.00
Net ongoing charge 2.8% £655.78
Incidental charges £0.00
Transaction costs £865.68
Stamp duty 0.5% £24.94
Total charges over 5 years £1,676.86
Average annual charge 7.10%
Illustrative 5 year value £4,478.49
Illustrative 5 year value with no charges applied £6,381.41
HINDY, 7%??? Where has that come from? 1.29% on HL.
@HINDY: what are you referring to? There are charges that Atrato charge the REIT for asset management services. They are nowhere near 7%, but are set at a reasonable level for the work the manager does.
oh well, at least you didn't crash the share price.
Check before you sell - KID says 1.86 %, although we all appreciate how complicated these costs are, and have different experiences depending on which broker we use. I'm sure non of us would be invested if there was a 7 % charge ?
just noticed the annual 7% charges on this fund.
i will be selling it on Monday