London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
You will only have one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not allowed. Any user found to have more than one account on this site will have all, and any future accounts suspended permanently.
Your email and password must only be used by you. If a post is made under your account, it will be considered that it was posted by yourself.
Your account nickname must not be the same, or contain, listed company names or board members' names.
While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate; rudeness, swearing, insulting posts, personal attacks, or posts which are invasive of another's privacy.
You will not;
discuss illegal or criminal activities.
post any confidential or price sensitive information or that is not public knowledge.
post misleading or false statements regarding the share price and performance. Such posts are deemed as market abuse, and may be reported to the appropriate authorities.
post any private communication, or part thereof, from any other person, including from a member of the board of directors of a listed company. Such posts cannot be verified as true and could be deemed to be misleading.
post any personal details (e.g. email address or phone number).
post live price or level 2 updates.
publish content that is not your original work, or infringes the copyright or other rights of any third party.
post non-constructive, meaningless, one word (or short) non-sense posts.
post links to, or otherwise publish any content containing any form of advertising, promotion for goods and services, spam, or other unsolicited communication.
post any affiliate or referral links, or post anything asking for a referral.
post or otherwise publish any content unrelated to the board or the board's topic.
re-post premium share chat posts on regular share chat.
restrict or inhibit any other user from using the boards.
impersonate any person or entity, including any of our employees or representatives.
post or transmit any content that contains software viruses, files or code designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of this website or any computer software or equipment.
If you are going to post non-English, please also post an English translation of your post.
If you are going to post non-English, please also post an English translation of your post.
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium and Verified Members
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East and have access to Premium Chat. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Smiley and others I don't know why 3xRR doesn't track absolutely the SP movement , iIdo know that those offering the 3X hedge their exposure by using swaps and options in various combinations . for commercial reasons they will , understandably, not reveal who their counterparties are or what level and in what proportions their hedges are set .I do have some contacts with hedge funds who use the same techniques and believe me it is an obscure branch of investment in which even the experts can come unstuck , most of you will be aware of the risks of leverage exposed in the Archegos capital collapse and the big names and big brains who have fallen foul. The other element which is pretty much out of everybody's control is the herd mentality prevalent in investment these days where a minor problem can become a disaster within seconds . High leverage means your short term losses are uncontrollable and if shorting, limitless.
Those things scare me. I've used them as well as similar ones with WisdomTree. The thing that really put me off was the illiquidity which seemed to appear once the market gapped (thinking back to Mar/2020 now). There were times when I couldn't trade those things for hours at a time. I was left to send them emails and phone them. I was lucky that it didn't end up in a disastrous loss.
I trade a lot and might consider them on an index again, IF the right market conditions arose, but would not ever consider them on a single stock, let alone RR. In my opinion, they're just too dangerous and make it difficult to manage the risk.
Good luck trying to get anything from Trading 212, I had a similar issue with Graniteshares with BP, executed my stop loss even though the BP price didn't drop. They told me it's nothing to do with them and that I should take up my problem with Graniteshares. As a retail investor you're unable to contact Graniteshares. I was going to chase up with the FCA but couldn't be bothered over £100.
But I agree with others, I dabbled with Graniteshares and my takeaway thoughts are don't bother, I know it's frustrating make your gains slower if you have less capital, but it's better than feeling robbed by execution of stop losses, or the price not following the actual price.
I appreciate the advice based on your experience. And thanks for the article. I am inexperienced thats true but i only play with relatively low amounts for example for Granite x3 i put £1500 not long ago, not a great deal i know. I have done this from time to time over the last 6 months or so with granite both long and short and its gone reasonably well. But today is the only day where i have seen Granite x3 not even closely follow rolls royce. Generally it is x3 up or down or close to. Any idea why? is it some kind of correction? P.S after reading the article i might turn my back on them!
Jsmiley Sorry no intention to be condescending , see this from a recent post of mine for my motivation " I post here occasionally with three purposes in mind , first to try to explain some of the ways in which markets work (see recent posts about "Beta"), second to offer informed opinion based on thirty years of successful investment and third to call out posters whose claims are clearly exaggerated or ill- informed" I currently don't hold RR for reasons I set out in a post on 11 March but I recognise that this is an active board with many inexperienced investors , so I pop in occasionally to offer well-meant advice. you are free to take it or not as you wish but please accept my good intentions. to that end here's another reference which I think might be useful.
Wow.. so condescending. Appreciate your input though. I think like myself others were a little thrown off guard by the fact that there was a large disparity between the rolls royce share price and that of granite. how can one be neutral will the other 5% down. For me personally its the first time i'd seen it like that and wondered why as i've watched it for some time. Nothing to do with intellect, mathematical ability...etc
To all those who are trading or contemplating trading 3x leveraged products I have some advice :
If you had read about these products you would be aware of some very important points These are a synthetic products ie they attempt to track the SP x 3 by a complex arrangement which works moderately well over short periods but essentially fails over long periods. They are to be used only for intra day speculation which is either soundly based on "insider information "and can be successful BUT is illegal or is as random as a punt on the turn of a roulette wheel. I spent several years trading options which has similar risk but can be profitable if you do your homework and are a skilled market operator which I was (and still am!!), even then I had one or two extremely scary moments. It is clear why organisations offering leveraged products are require to say in big letters at the top of their screens " 75 % of people using them LOSE MONEY" I draw attention to this sentence from the reference provided by seagull below
"As a general rule of thumb you can expect leveraged ETFs to perform better than you might expect in rising markets, and worse than you might expect in flat and falling markets"
I am pretty sure from the nature of your comment none of you have the knowledge , mathematical grasp or insight to use such products profitably , so I repeat my advice
i understand your distrust of them. Starting to wish i wasn't in it. i've been looking into it recently, and i'm not so smart that i can say i have much understanding of why the following can occur: on 2nd december share price was £1.34 and granite 2.561 on 16th march share price was £1.27.3 and granite 1.705
today when i last looked share price 99.5p and granite 0.762 on the 7th feb share price was 92p and granite 0.752???
Maybe i'm looking into too much i don't understand it at all. I thought granite x3 basically follows the standard share price x 3 either way. but i can't fathom why such disparity between similar prices
I personally investigated your inquiry, and here's what I got.
GraniteShares 3x Long Rolls-Royce Daily ETP is a collateralised, Exchange-Traded Product (ETP).
The ETP tracks, excluding fees and other adjustments, the performance of the Solactive Daily Leveraged 3x Long Rolls-Royce Holdings plc Index that seeks to provide 3 times the daily performance of Rolls-Royce Holdings plc shares.
For example, if Rolls-Royce Holdings plc rises by 1% over a day, then the ETP will rise by 3%, excluding fees and other adjustments. However, if Rolls-Royce Holdings plc falls by 1% over a day, then the ETP will fall by 3%, excluding fees and other adjustments.
If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask them we will happily answer them!
Trading 212 have sad, "I see, please note that we are unable to comment on how the pricing of the leveraged contracts are made. We are displaying the prices which we receive from our providers, however, as you may know, our charts are strictly indicative, as they are not bound to the executions of your orders. All of your trades are forwarded via a smart routing system to the respective trading establishment, where they are executed at the next available price." It has bounced a little but still not in line with x3
Well if no one gets back to us i've sent a notification to trading 212 asking if someone more knowledgeable about these things can clarify as to why this can happen. If i can a response i'll let you know.