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We just need to find some HGV drivers now :-D
Hi Wacky,
Don’t forget the compression :-)
10bcfg @ amb. pressure=100mmcf CNG. So:
100m/423776= 236 tankers per year.
Piece of **** ;-)
Hi Micktrick,
That’s great info, thank you,
My apologies all for sending on a wild goose chase by trying to compare a liquid fuel road tanker with a CNG road tanker.
If we are going to be using an equivalent piece of kit in Morocco as with what is available in the U.K. then this could possibly be the answer and the capacity figures and delivery pressures are staggering.
https://adfuels.co.uk/megc-trailers/
A 12000m3 capacity trailer converts to 423776 cu/ft per delivery.
So to deliver 1 billion cft of gas per year.
1bn / 423776 = 2359 delivery’s
2359/365 days per year = 6.46 delivery’s per day
So to deliver 10billion cft per year would equate to
64.6 delivery’s per day.
Is that to excessive, I wonder how many Sainburys delivery’s to the main stores are made everyday.
So infrastructure willing, it could be a possibility.
Paul will let us know soon enough.
GLA
Wacky.
Hi Wacky,
For CNG, between 2900-3600 psi. LPG uses less than your car tyres, as the volume is reduced by cooling
With CNG, temp also plays a part as pressure increases with temperature.
“ The typical industry standard for CNG fueling system pressure is 3,600 pounds per square inch (psi). Some systems in the United States and many systems overseas are rated at 3,000 psi. These fill pressures are based on a 70ºF ambient temperature. The CNG fuel tanks are designed to withstand up to 125% of their operating pressure. Therefore, a 3,000-psi tank can technically be filled to 3,750 psi, and a 3,600-psi tank can be filled to 4,500 psi. This allows a tank to be filled to a higher pressure on hot days when the gas is expanding, as well as compensate for the heat associated with the compression of the natural gas. A good rule of thumb is that for every 10ºF plus or minus 70ºF, the pressure will increase or decrease by 100 psi.”
I believe CNG is sold by weight to overcome factors like this, as it’s mass is the only thing that’s constant :-)
https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/natural_gas_filling_tanks.html
Hi all,
Sorry to through another spanner but the volume/amount of the compressed gas contained within the tanker depends on what psi the gas is compressed to, which is ultimately dependent on the pressure rating of the tanker.
Higher the psi, more gas.
Lower psi, less gas.
Tricky one.
Atb
Wacky
Hi LN,
Volume wise that sounds right, but from what I can see, LNG contains 3x the energy of CNG, as it’s a liquid. So to transport the same amount of energy would take 135 tankers. Sorry for moving the goalposts :-))
If I’ve got your maths correct though MT, 45 road cargoes would fill a mid sized LNG tanker (150,000 cubic metres)? Not inconceivable. And would require less to fill up smaller tankers, and they do exist in much smaller sizes…
So if my maths is correct, 15 tankers can shift 2mmcfg. Seems like a lot of effort.
I’m sure the maths is more complicated than this, but here’s my stab at it:
From earlier, 1cf=28.31l
CNG is compressed to 1% of its volume under normal atmospheric conditions .
So now, 100cf= 28.31l
38000/28.31= 1342.28
1342.28x100=134,228cf
???
https://www.clarke-energy.com/applications/compressed-and-liquified-gas-as-a-fuel-for-gas-engines/
Off topic a little, but nothing appears to be off the table at the moment. In addition to the Algeria supply issue for Morocco there's lot's of pressure on europe to be less reliant on Russia. As a result, some very ambitious infrastructure project ideas are being floated.
https://www.pipeline-journal.net/news/morocco-process-setting-firm-nigeria-gas-pipeline-project
Wacky,
Many thanks to you. The missing piece i didn’t note was the new location in the North.
Changes the whole picture, (subject to the commercial elements of trucking!) - thanks as ever for taking the time to post and fill in pieces for folk like me.
For starters 1 cu ft =28.31 litres :-)
Hi LochNez,
As always valid points made and a healthy discussion is always a good one especially when speculation is the course on the menu.
My earlier post was not intended to proclaim the future but merely to put forward a possible scenario based on certain media reports and what Paul has previously said in the 10th September podcast.
@18 mins onwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-3dSIXbqN8
And
The 10 day delay in the FSRU tender due to a new Facility in the North.
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2021/10/344984/morocco-to-construct-station-transforming-liquefied-gas-into-natural-gas
And
The port of Nador has plans for a Hydrocarbon Facility.#
"In the second phase, the ANP plans to add two more quays dedicated to petroleum products, which would raise the port’s total capacity to 20m tonnes of energy products per year. The estimated cost of this extension is Dh1.6bn (€143m). A rail connection between Nador West Med and the existing Nador-Taourirt railway will also be necessary in the future to ensure multi-modal connections".
https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/analysis/sea-change-major-port-project-aims-make-region-maritime-transport-hub
A little bit of digging came up with a 44 ton UK Class1 fuel tanker will carry 38000 litres so if someone wants to do the maths between us we should be able to work out what the equivalent in compressed gas would be.
https://www.gdjones.co.uk/en/vehicles
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/compressed-air-storage-volume-d_843.html
Happy digging,
GLA
Wacky.
Hi Dissipline,
Just for good order, unless you know something I don’t, that road you mention doesn’t run to any (known) planned LNG facility? The plans for Nador as outlined don’t include gas.
The road spend is intriguing, but let’s call it what it is - absurd - to suggest anyone is interested in trucking compressed gas for export as LNG. The volumes required and numbers simply wouldn’t make any sense next to a pipeline option. The CNG concept is wholly suitable for what PG intends it to serve - ‘stranded’ industry.
After looking at Wacky's finding ( great research wack) if there's gas there we don't have to worry too much about monetising the asset. When they spend $630 million on a road from quiet little Guercif to an lng terminal they may be working on some plans for us.
You can start to see why PG was so deadly quiet about our tests in the RNS. When the Moroccans are spending that type of money for infrastructure near our assets you sure would n't want to play this one poorly. PG's visage adhered to "tight hole" status.
PG did also mention the words "Guercif can be larger than the Rharb basin". Looks like we are going deep in Morocco... very deep. As long as we follow the rules assets will come to us.
Petermac - potential becomes reality with successful tests, where the company can state 'we have found pay this deep, a reservoir this big, which flows at this rate'.
As to when, how and how much - too many variables.
I am hugely excited by the opportunities being progressed in Morocco and pour over all the in-depth observations from the likes of GRH, Mick, MEM et al. I am bright enough, but if I am honest, much of it goes over my head. Happy to understand the general direction of travel.
So a general, if naive question. In such cases where a minnow un-earths a valuable asset, at what point is the potential 'proved'? At what point does a would-be buyer j/v partner step in? If PG wants early monetization, how does he progress it? General timeframe? If the 10 year value is calculated, what would the incoming party expect to pay up-front?
Said they were naive!