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Lti,
Correct!
I originally invested a fair sum of money because I could see future growth and a good stream of dividends.
Covid hit many shares hard including this one but despite Lloyds currently not being overly effected the dividend was cut, reintroduced at a reduced level and has still not been returned to 2018/2019 levels.
I am still happy to hold this stock but I was going to add a substantial amount to my investment in 2020 but I redirected it into another sector.
Unless obvious shareholder benefits (dividends!) return to previous levels then I will NOT invest anymore money in LBG.
There is still plenty of scope for SP rise, and buying today SHOULD give you a better return % on future dividends but for me there have been better investment options.
"Any shareholder can if they wish sell a shareholding at any time based on forecasts or not"
Well I was up over £14000, this morning, on my Lloyds shareholding, currently up £13,047 as I type this, so it isn't like I'd lose if I did decide to sell out and look elsewhere in the near future.
Bum
You have decided to invest in Lloyds putting the option as to what to do with profits in the hands of a BOD. All you can do is read what their policy is and then decide on your investment decision. Currently they have a progressive dividend policy, meaning that not all profits will be used on buybacks or acquisitions.
T
''By inference if the capital was allocated say to special dividend then you are saying the SP will go down?''
Are you serious?
Anyone should know that barring normal daily movements, a share price is affected when it goes XD.
Lti,
Agree, to a point...... But
I would rather have that money in my pocket where I can CHOOSE what to do with it....
F
''Well that'll ne a good few years, going off the analyst forecast''
A forecast is a forecast.
Any shareholder can if they wish sell a shareholding at any time based on forecasts or not..
"I have already said, that barring unforeseen circumstances Lloyds can afford a 3p + normal dividend AND share buybacks"
Well that'll ne a good few years, going off the analyst forecast.
"Analysts are forecasting a dividend of 1.99p per Lloyds share, totalling £1.41bn, for 2021, rising to £1.59bn for 2022 and £1.79bn for 2023. "
So FY2022 is forecast to be 2.24p, and FY2023 is forecast to be 2.5p, so not good if the analyst's have been given a heads up, and are correct.
Bum
Any excess capital not returned to shareholders will remain on the balance sheet and reflected in the share price.
ALL the estimated excess capital is reflected by the market in the current share price.
fleccy
"like refilling a bucket with a small hole in the bottom."
i just see the staff benefit shares as operating costs, guessing this isn't just lloyds practice and they will continue doing this whether they have buy backs or not.
Whether it's a good or a bad use of profits has often been debated and those on other side are relatively consistent in their views. I see them as a "nice to have" but after they have paid a realistic dividend, not before or as an alternative.
Today looks like the first sp dip in quite a long run.
F
''The Employees earn a wage for doing a job, some of the older investors may be dependant on their dividend income from their Lloyds shareholding''
Gone through this already.
I refer you to the 13.41 post.
Benefits are outlined in the contract when an employee takes a position at the bank.
Lti,
Although I still don't think we'll get a "full" dividend it does pee me off that the BoE still appears to be leaning on the banks to keep it this way.
The worst of Covid seems to be over, Lloyds is awash with cash, if it "CAN" pay a 2018/2019 level dividend it should.
F
''the point was that the share buybacks aren't helping the long term investors,''
but they do - without the recent 2 (small) buybacks the share count would be pushing towards 75 Billions meaning with today's market cap the share price would be x amount lower.
F
''Touting the share buybacks as some sort of compensation for reduced dividends is clearly false''
Buybacks are a return to shareholders which can have tax benefits for some shareholders.
I have already said, that barring unforeseen circumstances Lloyds can afford a 3p + normal dividend AND share buybacks. As I have also already said we will have to wait to see when a normal dividend reaches these levels. Any capital not returned to shareholders remains an asset on the balance sheet of Lloyds. Acquisitions are another use of excess capital.
"You could have fooled me, with a number of posts referencing them."
Not really, the point was that the share buybacks aren't helping the long term investors, who may see a significant cut in their income. The benefits seem to have continued while shareholders suffer.
The Employees earn a wage for doing a job, some of the older investors may be dependant on their dividend income from their Lloyds shareholding, why should Granny and Grandad suffer, while the directors continue to reward themselves. If the Dividend is cut, or reduced, then Employee benefits should be similarly impacted.
F
''I don't care about the share buybacks/Employee benefits.''
You could have fooled me, with a number of posts referencing them.
"If an investor wants to invest in such a company and are not stupid enough not to know about staff benefits , then that have ZERO rights to complain about them.
If they do complain about staff benefits then that must put them into the STUPID category."
If you read all my posts, on this subject LTI, I don't care about the share buybacks/Employee benefits. I do have a problem with the forecast FY21 Dividend of 2p, which is 35.5% lower than the FY2018 Dividend of 3,21p, especially when FY2019 was on target for 3.6p. Lloyds can reward their employees, and I don't have a problem with that, except for when it appears shareholders are expected to see a drop in income for no apparent reason. Touting the share buybacks as some sort of compensation for reduced dividends is clearly false, since the buybacks really only avoid dilution due to Block listings for said employee benefits, that's why I have a problem.
Mar
Unless there are unexpected developments re Covid or anything else in the coming years then Lloyds can afford a 3p+ normal dividend.
Time will tell how long it will be before returns to shareholders are made at this level by way of normal dividends - in the meantime some returns may come in other forms
longtimeinvestor too right bud nailed it i for one are a long term holder back in the days where i bought at 20-22 and bought a garage full many hundrds of thousands of now its my retirement fund and can i say its doing nicely it always paid a aver 3p divi no reason why it can not do it again . im hope in the long-term it gives 10 divi and can see it in 5 years time . i just sit back and wait . Been a long wait bud tho
Mar
You or anyone else can hold onto your shares for as little or as long a time as you like.
SS appears to suggest that he buys and keeps forever.
I personally have continuously held many stocks for many years, but those stocks will increase of decrease in number depending on price levels.
I worked at HSBC for many years.
Bank workers are like any other members of society and like many of the population are not interested in holding onto shares of any company, which means that many will depose of shares bought under a SAYE scheme etc, immediately.
longtimeinvestor as a ex lloyds it contractor i know that many fulltime employees sell there share bonus straight away lol so there back on the market just one big circle and shareholders pay for that not lloyds lol
F
''whereas in Lloyds case the share buybacks are like refilling a bucket with a small hole in the bottom.''
When are you and countless others going to realise?.
Employee share schemes are A FACT of LIFE in most large corporations and have been for DECADES.
If an investor wants to invest in such a company and are not stupid enough not to know about staff benefits , then that have ZERO rights to complain about them.
If they do complain about staff benefits then that must put them into the STUPID category.
If the recent buybacks hadn't taken place there would be 3.465 Billion MORE shares on the register than there currently are.
Simple enough to understand for those who are not stupid.
They have NOTHING to do with share buybacks.
'Maybe a reverse stock split first to half the number in issue'.
That will not make any difference in terms of divi payment, will have a zero net effect, only makes the SP look inflated.
I think the consensus is an expectation that the dividend at least returns to pre pandemic level immediately with scope for buyback /preventing further dilution beyond that ...... certainly the performance this year is more than enough to support that with the excess capital to support any further opportunity.....
I'd like to see the dividend payments get back to proper levels first but long term something must be done about the number of shares in issue.
Looking forward to the upcoming results. (Fingers crossed!)
Bumble1968,
"A progressive dividend policy and a falling shares in issue would stimulate SP growth."
Spot on. A progressive dividend policy and a buyback policy of buying back 2 times the amount of new shares issued every year. Long term share holders would benefit.