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Has he gone yet ? I was enjoying the banter.
Re hydrogen codes, yes there might be codes, and they will then be followed so at this point AFC are not doing anything new or risky, the existence of such codes de-risks the engineering challenge as they will tell AFC what minimum standards they must apply to be safe. Thanks for reassuring us that actually it's less risky than we might have otherwise thought. You might want to go back to deramping school, as you are getting schooled here. That's not to say the price won't drop further, but not for any engineering reasons you've stated.
Accidents happen...ask yourself why this sector is strapped with Hydrogen codes and standards. Try googling it and maybe educate yourself a little in this area. I.e. codes and standards (RCS) for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, stationary fuel cell applications and portable fuel cell applications. Bmac
Do I need planning permission for a shipping container? Shipping containers are non-permanent so in most cases not.
Oh dear. Breaking news! We must all stop filling up our cars at the petrol station because there are massive tanks of petrol underneath the ground which could blow up and kill us all.
There you are I have saved you all from near death.
I would like to reiterate Banaman's point regarding the Global nature of the potential market. In the UK we are never far from a power line and have very reliable generation but most of the world is not. The potential market for off-grid power for electric vehicles is huge.
In regards to power demand at The supermarket
13thMonkey, great answer
Banaman, he mentions planning because that's the copy-paste paragraph he's got for anything that requires equipment on the ground. I think he's pasted maybe 1/2 doz times in the last few days.
Re Off -Grid, it might just be 'supporting the grid', which makes the market a lot wider. Imagine someone like Tesco's, they are planning to put chargers in their carpark's, lets be sensible and say that they are only 10KW, so whilst shopping you'll probably top up a bit more than the mileage to get there, that's fine as a consumer your cost to get to the shop is now zero.
However, lets suggest that there are 20 chargers, any fewer than that is getting to the point of being pointless, that's 0.2MW extra into the site, peak time will be middle of the day, the same peak time when in the summer the fridges and freezers are pulling the most juice. That extra 0.2MW could easily be more than their connection can take, but they have to keep the chillers on, and they can't have the chargers being intermittent. An Ammonia based charger is perfect for that scenario. If Morrisons start offering 20KW or 50KW charging, they'll have to follow, at which point their connection definitely won't cope. They are used to handling explosive fuels, it's not a new risk.
As to projections, no one really knows, but the speed to deploy these solution will be a lot faster than upgrading the grid or peak power production. You use the dips in demand to produce the ammonia and you peak lop with devices like this taking the extra load. No more generating capacity is needed, or a lot less is needed, the engineering trade mags have been talking about the smart grid and the possibility of power shortages for at least 2 decades, and practically nothing has happened on a base capacity front, we're eventually going to have a nuclear station at a ridiculous cost, but that'll barely scratch the surface of a full load demand situation for potential e-vehicle usage in 2025 never mind 2030.
BMac, why mention about planning etc etc when that was in fact not what you mean. In regards to growth timelines the off grid EV charger market is global. Not forgetting that it is not just EV chargers that are of interest. We are just starting with that. If it is cost competition that you are now going down the road of then please tell me why Ceres power have MCap of 4x plus that of AFC but cannot turn a profit. The cost of the AFC fuel cell was one of the major objectives and has been designed to be the lowest cost option. This is the customer benefit and the reason to buy AFC.
banaman….I am aware of all that. It' s the current inflated sp projections set against realistic growth timelines, the large cash injections that I think are needed to get there and, as for the EV Charger, this markets cost/return competitiveness, that my posts are (mostly) about. Bmac
BMac, your still missing the point. We are talking off grid EV charging. Why would it even be comparable to on grid where this is not a feasible option. The current fuel cell designed is being sold predominantly as a replacement to diesel and back up power replacement. Larger systems for static application are not a replacement for providing power as you suggest to EV chargers , they will be the power supply to EV chargers but on mass generation. It has been stated that the cost of power can be as competitive as CCGT. If designing a container ship you would just design it to generate electric power from a fuel cell powered by Ammonia rather than a dirty diesel engine. Still requires design but will not be any different in cost, safety etc than designing for the engine it would replace. I really think you are missing the point.
Paid deramper with no shame
Think that’s the perfect message to any of his posts ????
Paid deramper with no shame
Not paid athansius. Have you considered the possibility that I see thing differently to you?
Paid deramper
athansius….Re your quote…. I think your response has lost you any credibility you had. I offered you a chance to provide balance and you failed to take it.
Really? Well here is what I think athansius…. I think your response has lost YOU any credibility YOU had. I offered you a chance to provide answers to your own questions and you failed to take it. Bmac
banaman...how about considering the cost/return competitive position for AFC against installing grid charging units at a customers site like the following....
site procurement, design, detailed planning, planning permissions, front and back end engineering, environmental impacts, public safety, health and safety and other such clearances and logistical assessments for every installation, external and internal, affecting both buyer and seller, impacting total costs (not just the cost consideration per KWh) for an AFC EV Charger installation and the frequent handling, delivery, cost and storage of the hydrogen feedstock. Bmac
I think your response has lost you any credibility you had. I offered you a chance to provide balance and you failed to take it.
Clearly you are a paid deramper after all.
The point is, why run a vehicle on hydrogen when you can charge a battery. Why run electric or hydrogen pipeline to a remote location whe you can provide power through an AFC by using stored ammonia. Your reasoning is completely floored. There will always be room for direct to grid EV charging but currently there is a huge gap for off grid EV charging. Motorway services may have power but to wire in additional EV charge points may present an issue. In comes Rolec with the off grid EV charger.
athansius….if you really want to enthuse me then best that you convince me first, and others.
Produce convincing answers to the four questions that you have posed to me and put time lines alongside each. Don't forget to include the impact of all non-existent warranties. Bmac
There are also humans driving around with fuel cell powered cars. Filling up on hydrogen to provide fuel for power. In fact I believe waitrose have a hydrogen filling station in the north west. I will try and find a link.
BMac, you really are a fool if you think AFC have not considered how to store and transport hydrogen within the system. Hydrogen does embrittle steel but requires much higher pressures than would be required from storage or transportation. Leave this to the experts. There are too many desk top engineers with using Google to research and create opinions. AFC have been working with hydrogen for a very long time and have been working with leading experts in chemistry and metallurgy. I think they have got this covered.