BumbleB, re your ….Graffiti will be a problem, what development might not be vulnerable to graffiti?
But wasn't I ridiculed and laughed at by the baiting gang on this board for pointing that out. Graffiti plastered all over a Brand name can damage the Brand itself. Never mind, fixed sites will require to be compounded anyway and they will require Planning approval as well. Bmac
loglorry…...grid Maxed out. 10Kw is almost nothing. You do know that 40 sodium (orange) street lights is 10Kw? Replacing these with LEDs frees up enough grid power equal to one complex AFC Cell, associated cracker and associated network of Ammonia distribution. Where required the grid can be upgraded at a fraction of the cost of this hair brain scheme. Oh and grid power can be renewable or non carbon like nuclear. Ammonia has a higher carbon footprint than gassolilne for 85% of current production. @haggis you are a nutter.
just one more from loglorry, my sentiments exactly.....
@haggismchaggis.. everyone knows, anything not uber positive on lse is just removed. It's a echo chamber of confirmation bias. @haggismchaggis show me one thing I've stated that's not true? You can't. Anybody can find a few Google stories about how the EV market is growing. How about doing some real research. Why is anyone going to pay 5x or more to charge their car and wait hours when they can just use a cheaper charger connected to the grid? AFC has been trying to develop their fuel cell for 12 years. This daft idea is just the next one in a long line of daft ideas. Strange isn't it that all this happens just before they run out of money once again.
You can forget the green credentials btw. 85% of Ammonia comes from a process which emits more C02 than gasoline by reforming natural gas. Please do some proper research. Everyone knows EVs are set to be a growth market. That doesn't mean AFC's half baked idea of using their fuel cells combined with huge battery banks and massive stocks of Ammonia will have any buyers. It simple makes no sense whatsoever.
Oh, I meant to post this one from loglorry before leaving...more from him on the ADVFM board. Worth reading ...Bmac
would a fleet owner pay at least 30p/KWh plus all the associated capital and operational expenditure for a AFC fuel cell plus all the battery backup and Ammonia cracker plus the extra cost of delivering large quantities of Ammonia rather than just use the grid at around 10p/KWh. It is all completely nonsensical and it's about another capital raise as AFC has once again run out of cash because its sold absolutely zip. At around 56% efficiency their fuel cell requires 2.5Kg/hour of Ammonia to produce just 4KW. A 100KWh EV will take 25 hours to charge just ONE CAR at that rate. Ridiculous costs aside these fleet cars will need huge volumes of Ammonia in storage to charge them and you can imagine the local authority planning constraints in storing that and that's before you get into the high temperature, high pressure crackers required. I'm afraid none of it makes sense - its just to raise more cash.
BumbleB, re your.....One hour gone Bmac and the silence is deafening. When have AFC claimed " their product is totally green?"
Looks like the baiting crew have come out in force today.
On the one hand Mr chippyjo states...I suggest you write to AFC and raise your concerns as the company have made their standpoint on this. Are you calling them liars? Then we have you asking when have AFC ever claimed that there product was totally green.
Even at the risk of upsetting chippyjo. I'll take it then, (as I presumed already) that it is NOT totally green. And thats is a goodnite from me. Bmac
BumbleB re your … So the CO2 argument is a red herring?
Well it doesn’t appear to me that you were too sure about that’ red herring’ answer yourself, does it?
The core question remains ….is AFC justified in claiming that their product is totally green? That question arose from this post from loglorry1…
loglorry1 post…. Cracking Ammonia to H2 and then using it to generate electricity has a worse carbon footprint than carbon based fuels like oil/gasoline so it's really not an environmental fuel…. 85% of the worlds Ammonia is made from energy intensive sources.
If the ammonia used in AFC’s fuel cells has been produced by a ‘carbon producing’ method then it is not totally clean to use, is it? Its production has already contributed to the carbon footprint before it even reached the length of AFC’s fuel cells. Green ammonia is more expensive and will add to the cost per unit of electricity if used. Given the customer has the choice of the feedstock then the chances are they will take the cheapest. Presumably AFC will have no control over that aspect of the arrangement. Vast quantities of this stuff could be used as the years go by and so the question remains … is AFC justified in claiming that their product is totally green? At some point an intelligent green minded person from the media will be very interested in the answer to that question. Bmac
chippyjo, re your...Ammonia NH3 One part nitrogen 3 parts Hydrogen NO CARBON MOLECULES
Got that. In regard to the nitrogen output....from memory, when nitrogen mixes with oxygen (in the air) it produces Nitrogen dioxide which is one of todays nasty air pollutants. Same as that produced from car exhausts. Bmac
BumbleB re your....Sorry, those words don’t make sense, speak English.
Is this clearer?
Ammonia is classified ‘green’ if the process by which it is produced is carbon free. Does this mean that when it is cracked by AFC in its EV Charger unit, to produce hydrogen, that it does not produce carbon (Co2) from the cracker. Overall you may claim that the use of ‘green’ ammonia is ‘net’ carbon free, that's all…..What is happening to the carbon that the AFC’s cracker is producing at the point of installation?
Is AFC is touting a green product or a NET green product? Bmac
13thmonkey...Ammonia is classified ‘green’ if the process by which it is produced is carbon free. That Does this mean that when it is cracked by AFC in its EV Charger unit, to produce hydrogen, that it does not produce carbon (Co2) from the AFC cracker. Overall you may claim that the use of ‘green’ ammonia is ‘net’ carbon free. That’s all…..Correct me if I am wrong. Bmac
BumbleB, re your....Our friend ignores the video from Jim Gibson talking about its POTENTIAL use...
So now its just POTENTIAL use. Well which is it, is it potential or definite? Why hasn't AFC filled their marketing material with this important information if is DEFINATELY going to use it? Bmac
Bumbleb.....Everyone at the presentation last Friday heard Adam Bond refer to the use of green ammonia. Once again the essayist is showing his ignorance on the subject.
In that case why is it not mentioned anywhere on AFC's website or marketing releases. You would think it would be rather important to let the world know about that rather poignant topic. No? Bmac
MrJefferson, re your....loglorry1....I always like to do a little research on a company’s position before taking their opinion as gospel.
Great, you will be in a good position to counter the content of loglorr1's post then. So pray, let us have the results of your research. Bmac
chippyjo, re your....Bsac has an open CFD at 10p
You and some of your friends just can't place a response on this board without adding something derogatory in an attempt to undermine. That sort of thing says more about you than it does about me. Truth be known, I would have no clue how to place a CFD. Not that this disclosure is likely to make any difference to your opinion. Bmac
chippyjo, re your....Yes the grid will merino the power supply of first consideration.
Eureka! ….at last we have consensus. And first choice for connection to battery packs (just as AFC have done ). And there can be other combos deploying grid, wind and solar where applicable also. It's not plain sailing for AFC then, is it? Lots of other possibilities and competitive possibilities out there isn't there. Bmac
haggismchaggis1, re your ….Green ammonia pilot plants began operations in the UK and Japan etc...
Jeez.....unless you take steps to capture the carbon produced then it ain't green when you have to crack it into hydrogen, is it? Bmac