Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
I don’t have access to the article because I don’t subscribe to the Times, but there’s an article in today’s edition tipping AA as a takeover or merger target.
With metals playing a huge role in green energy transition AA must look like a screaming buy at current valuations. If it were to relist on a decent stock market its value would soar. The Permabear is toxic, it destroys the value of everything that lists on it.
* Anglo American : Barclays cuts target price to 2575p from 2865p
* Anglo American : Jefferies cuts target price to 2,500p from 2,600p
* Anglo American : RBC cuts target price to 2,200p from 2,400p
Only moderate price target reductions, nothing in line with the shocking shareprice plunge.
AA’s update also reflects the challenges facing the sector; weak metal prices are not only specific to AA
AA’s biggest issue is its UK listing.
Hedge funds don’t trade fundamentals they trade numbers. So AA will be relentlessly targeted by concerted and collusive hedge fund shorting activity.
The Permabear 100 is where every bear on earth comes to hunt. Hence the paltry valuations; which I believe are at an all time historic low.
Negative news is priced in 5/6 times on UK markets. Positive news is dismissed. It’s become a global ritual to smash UK company valuations on trading updates, irrespective of the results.
Bad
“For long term holders, the opportunity to add at these prices is fantastic”
That’s what conventional logic would suggest.
But apart from a handful of uk stocks, all others are in terminal decline. You could have made a compelling argument to buy uk shares for being obscenely cheap when they were much higher. For stock markets to function properly shareprices have to go up as well as down. The Permabear is toxic, it destroys the value of almost every company that lists on it.
“Johnson Matthey : JP Morgan cuts target price to 1460p from 2000p”
A case in point. JPM issued this recommendation today and the Market Makers have marked it down to 1460.
It seems the beancounters at JPM are valuing British stocks. And shorting them at the same time. Big ugly bullying American corporations waxing rich on insider trading.
It was as though that last market beating update never happened. British market makers are incapable of valuing shares fairly. They ignore all good news and price all negative news in five or six times over.
And the beancounters at JPM are issuing ever lower price targets on UK listed companies DESPITE THEM TRADING AT ALL TIME HISTORIC LOWS.
These aren’t distressed companies, these are companies in rude financial health.
JPM are issuing price target. Nodding donkey UK market makers are complying with those valuations.
No other global market works like that. UK markets are broken.
The only solution I can see to fix a market, no decent company in the world would list on, is to go through the current market makers with a wrecking ball and install new ones. UK markets are a joke. They are like casinos where the house chooses its own cards. And it’s common knowledge JPM are advising their clients to short the very companies their beancounters are issuing never ending price target reductions on. As usual, no protection from the government. No other country in the world would tolerate this abuse. Uk markets must rebuild their shattered reputation before they can be regarded as viable indexes again.
Clued
“nothing would surprise me about the dishonesty of humans. What a sad world we live in.”
Regrettably, that’s very true.
As Immanuel Kant said
“Out of the twisted timber of humanity, nothing straight can ever be made”
One only has to look at markets for evidence of that. Especially UK stock markets.
Slow
“Absolutely hilarious“
Really?
Look no further than boiler room operation Shadowfall who were constantly spreading pathological lies about Darktrace, while shorting them in concert with other boiler room outfits.
It took a much publicized independent audit by Darktrace to quash those false rumours. If Shadowfall had pulled that stunt in the USA they would have been put out of business with a huge regulatory fine.
The problem is, how can you prove an opinion is wrong? Boiler room outfit can say what they like about companies, even if it is outright lies. It goes on all the time.
And there’s a hierarchy too. JPM and other big banks have affiliations with hedge funds, and those funds have affiliations with boiler room operations.
Which all adds up to market manipulation.
“You have to ask yourself why JP Morgan cuts their rating right on the day the phoenix rises, it just so obvious they are shorting this“
JPM have indeed advised their clients to short Phoenix. There is regulation in place to prevent this type of blatant manipulation in every other global market. It’s only in the UK, where hedge funds and brokers can short a stock and determine its price direction simultaneously, by disseminating fake news and fabricated lies.
The FCA should act on this, but they’re toothless fairies. The problem with being listed on a cesspit index with no protection, against insider trading and rogue traders, is that shareholders are left wide open to abuse from every boiler room operation on the planet.
Hjkl
You are so right. Beancounters follow the shareprice, not the other way round. However market makers do accommodate them when they downgrade a share though by marking it down aggressively, while completely ignoring upgrades.
In my view, every UK market market needs removing and new ones brought in. They are incapable of doing what they’re paid to do - which is to value equities without bias or external influence.
Case in point today with Phoenix - it absolutely SMASHED market estimates, yet it is only up 5 percent; and they will probably mark it back down to 460 tomorrow. Whereas if Phoenix had come in a fraction short, the shareprice would have been hammered 12/15 percent.
No other global stock market works that way. Insane valuations set by nodding donkeys, listed in a cesspit index.
There are some great companies listed in the UK. Just a pity those responsible for valuing them are unspeakable *#^~_•**
Adem
“The mentality of the "trader" I find often ensures that they very often miss the "best " / optimal opportunities”
No the mentality of the trader is to buy and sell somewhere in-between trading ranges on a short term basis. It’s about money - now. Technical trading, not trading fundamentals. Active all the time, in the quest to exploit price action.
There are those of us that trade, and those that invest. You need to distinguish between the two.
Mick
Closed at £28.50
Den
The problem with bottom feeding is that traders often miss out. Out of all the thousands of trades I’ve done, I’ve only caught bottoms and tops a handful of times.
It’s a crude psychology - some would argue fantasy.
I’m sure if Diageo fell to £25 you would cancel your order and place one for £22 and pontificate your fantasy trade on these boards to let everyone know how smart you are.
in the real world of trading you buy and sell somewhere in between bottoms and tops and make real money.
Do you ever ask yourself why 80 percent of tradets lose?
Because of mentality like your's mostly. A wannabe trader's lifespan is usually a short one (like that of a fly) comprising of hubris, bravado, dumb luck, wipeout, endgame.
That describes 80 percent of people and I'm sure it includes you
Porsche
You’re wrong. The UK index has some world beating, market leaders amongst its components. Companies that make almost all their profits outside post-Brexit Britain.
The problem is they are listed in a cesspit index, that is broken. UK market do not possess the necessary intelligence to value shares. That’s why no new company will list here - because to do so is to put yourself at the mercy of an engine of wealth destruction.
Diageo could easily uproots and re-list anywhere, and its valuation would soar once it got away from toxic Britain’s gravity. The same can be said for most Permabear 100 companies - they would benefit enormously if they were to move away from little de-globalized England. They owe it to their shareholders.
Amateur
LVMH issued a profit warning a while back which sent Diageo into a tailspin, so today’s profit warning wasn’t altogether unexpected. It should have been mostly pricing in anyway - but this is the Permabear.
Diageo however, is trading at a big discount to its peers. It doesn’t trade on a big p/e for the sector.
Problem is Diageo is being valued by a market index that is broken. Most blue chips are trading on p/es oh 4/5/6 which is ridiculous.
For markets to work, they have to go up as well as down, and there has to be some semblance of reality in valuations.
The Permabear fails on every level. Good news is never priced in, bad news is priced in 5/6 times.
No stock that belongs to UK indexes is safe. It’s where all the bears of the world come to hunt, and market makers comply by savagely tearing down ever diminishing shareprices. Just like everything else in this cesspit country, stock markets need razing to the ground and rebuilt from scratch. By that I mean, all those responsibly for markets need to be culled and new players brought in.
is being the only big miner in the permabear 100 that’s not protected by a dual listing. since bhp quit the permabear its shares have outperformed just about any other uk equity. rio is protected by its australian listing, as isanto***asta by its chilean one.
but anglo is at the sole mercy of the uk market. an index that smashes shareprices into pulp. the uk index is an engine of wealth destruction. unfit for purpose, the market makers do not know how to value shares fairly. and don’t talk about sets because mm neanderthals set those.
anglo should re-list in australia or the us. market leaders like anglo cannot allow their shares to be valued by stone age troglodytes. i’ve seen days when 0.001 percent of a shares have been traded and dropped 10 percent. that would not happen anywhere else except for in the decadent, ******ed uk.
and it’s become even worse since the country took a quantum leap backwards and voted for a doomsday cult, that delivered brexit - the greatest act of self harm any nation has ever bestowed on itself. britain needs to be knocked down and rebuilt from the roots.
“I'm 17% under water - gonna cut losses and move on GLTA“
On certain shares I’d agree but not with Diageo priced at these levels. I only have 100 but I’m adding another 100 today.
Diegeo is a market leader. Its downfall is being listed on the Permabear 100. An index priced by troglodytes from the Stone Age. Like every other establishment and institution in Britain, the stock market is decadent and falling apart at the seams; unfit for purpose and incapable of valuing equities.
Bearing in mind most Permabear listed companies make almost all their money overseas, it seems madness to let under-qualified, undereducated Neanderthals value them. Any company that makes its money elsewhere should wipe their feet on the country and the ftse on the way out. And Diageo is one of those companies.
Rullion
Telecoms sector has been a perennial underperformer for many years.
Sector best avoided in my view. Or at least keep position small.
The sector is heavily indebted, and that weighs on the shareprice. Maybe you should look at more favorable sectors to trade/invest.
Biscuit
“My strategy, fwiw, is believing 110 is the bottom, buying when it gets near it and selling when it's near 120. Do that a few times and roll in divs and it's golden.“
Not worth a lot I’m afraid,
I see the same such nonsense posted on these boards, all the time.
Novice trader cherry picks ideal entry and exit points from a recent chart, then claims to have traded it multiple times, between those parameters.
Price ranges have a habit of changing rapidly and leaving traders high and dry. Shareprices don’t operate like clockwork.
And given that BT is in a downtrend, you’re far more likely to make money going short, than long. I’ve come across posters who have made money going long on shares, which have fallen from £5 to £1:))
You won’t find a lot of truth of these boards. Anyone reading them should take many of the claims with a huge dose of salt.
If only it were as simple as you make it out to be.
This will weigh on banks. Just another example of Tory Ukippers defecating on shareholders. Force the banks to lend billions against their will, in what were known to be ultra risky loans, and then pull the plug on their underwritten guarantee. Uk banks have just served at a Tory doormat since the financial crisis.
So far it’s only been a billion pounds but I can see it snowballing as the Tories try to bribe the electorate at bank shareholders expense.
If it does materialise into huge losses I will find away to do some real damage. I cannot see shareholders accepting this off the POS that rule over us.
Below is just a small part of the article dated today.
The UK government has scrapped guarantees on nearly 1 billion pounds ($1.2 billion) of bank loans handed out to ailing businesses during the COVID-19 pandemic, leaving lenders on the hook for some of the borrowings that will not be repaid.
Previously unreported figures obtained by Reuters under a
Freedom of Information (FOI) request show that the state-owned
British Business Bank (BBB) – which administers the loan schemes – has removed state guarantees from 10,786 loans worth a combined 979 million pounds as of Oct. 11, shielding taxpayers from some losses.
While the amount is only a fraction so far of the 77 billion pounds of loans issued, the move follows pressure from lawmakers and Britain's public spending watchdog who criticised the programmes for being too lax. The figures could rise further – latest figures show just 17 billion pounds have been fully repaid by borrowers as of June 30.
Dozens of lenders took part in the government-backed schemes, including Britain's "Big Four" banks: Barclays , NatWest , Lloyds and HSBC .
Barclays and HSBC declined to comment, while the other two were not immediately available.”
Wolf
Thanks for your reply.
If you do know anyone else who worked at Barclays in the nineties, I’d be happy to reminisce.
posted on 11th October
Barclays among major banks reportedly sitting out latest wave of buyouts”
I used to work for Barclays as a forex trader when they were domiciled in Lombard Street, before they upped sticks to Canary Wharf. Used to chat to the derivative guys in the pubs at lunchtime.
Believe me, their investment bank is rich in expertise. Unlike DB & CS(R.I.P)
The difference in making billions and losing billions is in the personnel”
I also worked at Barclays in Poole, Dorset for a while.
Maybe that’s why I’m so biased towards Barclays
Over and out.
Have a good weekend e everyone.
And keep the faith in Barclays.
125 bottom.
And I am rarely wrong.