Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
"In addition to that, the investment case for our Stone Alliance project has of course weakened significantly to the point where investors that we were in negotiation with, to get this on the road, have basically said for us country risk is too great an issue for us to proceed. So, we have potentially lost that as well"
Yet no RNS??
This is Chris's exit narrative IMHO.
"I feel sorry for the company they were so close to being cash generative then this happens." IMHO that's just what Fox would possibly like you to think as the BOD perhaps construct a narrative for this company's demise that makes it look like someone else's fault?
Stone Alliance IMHO was always going to end up being another smokescreen like Eboracum and Banyan. Stone Alliance has a non-binding Memorandum of Understanding. What's the chance of that coming to anything now?
"Stone Alliance is seeking to raise at least €100m from new investors as the business plan dictates. It is envisaged that the fundraising will commence shortly" - that was three years ago! Stone Alliance still have no website except a placeholder and they give the famous 1209 Wilmington as their address - which is a registration address not a real business address.
https://www.businessinsider.com/building-wilmington-delaware-largest-companies-ct-corporation-2017-4?r=US&IR=T
If you're in dispute with the gov't and your balance sheet is weak IMHO the company is completely stuffed.
195M is utter nonsense - this will be laughed out of court, I mean arbitration.
Why on earth is everything else ok - at the end of this month don't they have loans to repay? Is cash flow not massively negative?
Credit to Chris for keeping this going as long as he has. I fear the writing is on the wall now.
It would come as no surprise to me to see a near-terminal RNS sometime regarding inability to refinance loan notes (I think some are due in September?) - who is going to lend through convertibles when the SP keeps falling, deals keep failing, and there isn't enough (any?) cashflow to cover interest repayments let alone capital. After 1M from Brandon - I think - is any more money forthcoming?
I think this will end up a classic and quite common case of creditors taking the equity, SP falling to near zero and delisting.
Can anyone tell me how I am wrong and how they will repay circa £4M of debt in the coming years? I would love to see a prediction year by year of sales, costs, cash flow and debt repayments.
I may be wrong of course; GLTA.
Banyan Stone have just filed in Gibraltar if anyone is interested. I'm not paying 40 quid to get the accounts and I did in previous years as we all know about previous RNS statements from Fox and what they were worth but I'm sure one of you investors will so they can post about ... err ... millions in revenue selling Fox's marble etc etc.
And the administrator will shortly be posting their annual report into the winding up of Jigsaw Leisure and if they ever got hundreds of thousands of missing money from Scott (also behind Eboracum). ... and of course Eboracum's accounts are overdue if one checks at Companies House
What was that Chris said about only dealing with the most ethical of companies - "[I] Work to the highest ethical standards both personally and corporately and insist everyone around does the same."!!
This company is a slow motion train wreck. You've all had the chance to jump.
Where is "a few million" going to come from? They're already up to their eyeballs in unpayable debt are they not?
Good idea re: the call. You seem to be one of the "eyes wide open" investors which is no bad thing.
Well done for selling 40k worth of shares.
This company is a disaster IMHO. New all time low share price? Masses of debt they just won't be able to repay? IMHO those that say the company is in great shape can't read a balance sheet.
The nut-jobs are on here, not advfn BTW IMHO. It was on advfn that most of the, IMHO, suspicious stuff about the first china deal, Banyan, Eboracum, the "deal" in the US etc was first revealed.
I personally think this allows a way for Fox to release awful news on sales, as per usual, and then blame it on something.
Just as he blamed one set of awful results on Brexit(!). Let's see!
I guess you mean me eshaitan? I do apologise. Good Luck.
That explains it... normally one is bullish because the shares offer fundamental value, and where the CEO hasn't perennially disappointed, where he didn't enter into what IMHO are suspicious deals with failed bar managers being chased by the the insolvency administrators despite claims to operate to the highest ethical standards and where he didn't make deals with obscure offshore companies with no assets (ok, 12 pounds in assets or whatever it was), where he didn't make statements about millions in orders which never materialised, where he did manage to build a small factory in less than 4(?) years, and where his interviews bear some vague resemblence to the reality that later transpires etc etc.
Buy shares in a company and then be bullish about it. Good luck. You really have no one else to blame but yourselves for your losses.
Crikey the bulls on hear must need the quarries to be irradiated by an atom bomb to turn bearish.
https://www.foxmarble.net/contact-us still shows Eboracum as a distribution partner - a dormant company that was run by a former bar manager being chased by the official administrator re: money missing on other ventures.
IMHO this whole debacle may make good reading in Private Eye one day
Fool and his money... etc GLTA
1. Do you really think you can believe the order book? In previous years orders were millions (3-4 million Euros) and sales about 1/3 of that. The process of "advance payments" for new "customers" continues as per Eboracum and Banyan which to me at least it's clear went nowhere and if you look at the maths it seems that these advance payment in the past two years too don't seems materialise into proper sales. Has anyone asked Chris how many / much of these "advance payments" were ultimitely returned to the buyer.
2. What is your estimate of break even. I suspect its at least 4-5M in sales, possibly higher.
This is possibly IHT planning by Muir. Just an idea.
It is entirely possible that Fox have turned a corner. But this statement has also been true for the past 5 years.
In his interview Chris states "To ..Work to the highest ethical standards both personally and corporately and insist everyone around does the same."Wow! What was he doing with Eboracum then? I'd love to ask him this in a public forum "Chris you state that you work to the highest ethical standards both personally and corporately and insist everyone around does the same. But a few years back you announced an RNS order to the market with Eboracum Marble, a company set up a few days earlier by a failed bar manager with it seems no experience in this market and with a string of failed companies behind him and a public statement from the liquidator of one of them that said bar manager was not cooperating with them with regards to hundred of thousands of pounds of missing money - over £650,000 in fact including money owed to HMRC - in Jigsaw Leisure- all available on companies house. You even stated publicly that you were expecting more orders from them WHEN THEY HAD ALREADY FILED STATEMENTS TO COMPANIES HOUSE MAKING IT CLEAR THERE WAS NO COMPANY ACRTIVITY AND HAD TOTAL ASSETS of £1. Of course they never made any sales of note. Is this Work to the highest ethical standards?". And if it is, what about a very similar move you did with Banyan Marble?
"Isn't an RNS meant to be a legal truthful statement"
IMHO Yes!
Bus from past form it is no surprise that RNSs from Fox did not transpire...
No need for an apology from me then. I think I win the prize too for closest prediction for 2018 sales?
Well done on getting a placing away. Some people love a jam tomorrow story and never learn.
The writing has been on the wall for years but some people just never listen. That's investing.
No it cannot ukvrkw. If you really believe that a tiny little loss making company (in the middle of nowhere that has questionable reporting practices on its orders, makes suspicious deals with start-up companies that come to nothing and consistently over promises and underdelivers on quite simple things like building a factory, oh yes and turning orders into sales) represents a suitable play on developing markets then god help your investment returns.
I'm going for 1.4-1.8M of sales this year.
As I said if it less than 2.4M (I think it was -300k / month plus first half) I'm very happy to post that I am wrong
GLTA.
As we all know Fox has announced about 18M of orders the vast majority of which kept being pushed into the next half, as Chris personally told me himself, and then never materialised....
Personally I don't believe any stories about orders being pushed into the next half...
The truth is often annoying. Echo chambers are very satisfying places to be even if you have 1/3 the money after 4 years that you would have by investing in a general smaller companies fund (down 50% versus up 50%) - at least you've all got poorer together.
Thanks for your civil posts CTW.
I had my own views supported by my own research. I do not think that Banyan Zhong Eboracum will raise their head again but I don't completeliy discount it. I find it inexplicable that massive orders which were seemngly never realised raised by newly-establised companies with no physical presence run by unknown or unorthodox manegers got past both the non-execs and brokers. I have my own views on this and anyone that reseaches it can easily come to their own conclusions and whether it may impact the company and particularly the position of its executives in the future, and of course they may disagree with mine.
Actaully I think the future looks more bright than the last 4 years, but then I knew what situation the company was in 4 years ago!
If Fox does EUR 2.4m this year in cash sales they may well have escaped a death spiral of dilution and debt. Personally I am happy to say I don't think they will but tht's my opinion which is now largely based on past form and unrealistic RNSs; so I am prepared to admit I'm wrong if they do.
Truro, I traded Fox between Dec 2012 and Sept 2014, selling some at 20p. However, although I have bought (and sold) 400,000 shares I didn't trade well and sold some at 13p. so only managed to make £499.90 profit. Of course if I held I would have made a circa £25,000 loss so I'm glad I found what I did, told others about it, and sold out.